“POLYGAMY,PROS AND CONS” AT BLACKPLANET.COM

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POLYGAMY Pros & Cons? Please Comment (64) Reply Comments Options

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Jan 7

Pros:
2 heads are always better than 1.
3 paychecks beat 2.
It takes a villiage to raise a child.

Cons:
Jealousy
extra expenses
more people = more conflict

Is a polygamy the product of loving more than 1 woman/ or man?
or is it a man/or woman being greedy?

Does po;ygamy cross religious lines?
social lines?
Have you ever lived and were involved romantically with more than 1 person at a time?

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karmababy_karma
Male, 39, Missouri City, TX

Posted Jan 12

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Pros:
2 heads are always better than 1.
3 paychecks beat 2.
It takes a villiage to raise a child.

Cons:
Jealousy
extra expenses
more people = more conflict

Is a polygamy the product of loving more than 1 woman/ or man?
or is it a man/or woman being greedy?

Does po;ygamy cross religious lines?
social lines?
Have you ever lived and were involved romantically with more than 1 person at a time?

CON #1, It’s illegal and you will do time.

But after that, it’s got to have a great upside if we could. If we could secretly vote nationally on whether to allow it or not, I think it would garner 90%+ from males and around 50% from the females. But it would HAVE to be a truly secret vote cuz spouses of voting partners would be livid if they really found out the truth of their spouses feeling on the subject.

It dang sho’ would keep the wives in line and keep the trifling arguments at a minimum. It would also keep competing husbands tuned into their wife’s needs (safety, security, financially grounded, etc.).

Historically, Men had multiple wives and populations prospered and grew. It also ensured that ONLY the top of the food chain had children. This most recent act of monogomous relationships, to me, is just a bunch of jealous women that talked their weak minded husbands into “getting married”.

Good food for thought though,

Buddah

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 16

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Pros:
2 heads are always better than 1.
3 paychecks beat 2.
It takes a villiage to raise a child.

Cons:
Jealousy
extra expenses
more people = more conflict

Is a polygamy the product of loving more than 1 woman/ or man?
or is it a man/or woman being greedy?

Does po;ygamy cross religious lines?
social lines?
Have you ever lived and were involved romantically with more than 1 person at a time?

a BIG con: It’s ILLEGAL.

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SenorCafeDa2nd
Male, Age Private, Paterson, NJ

Posted Jan 17

Polygamy goes on every day in every city without the formalities that will land you in jail, If you homie got a steady girl and a girl on the side he in a polygamous relationship, it may be a secretive polygamous relationship but nevertheless its polygamous.

In the black community single available black women outnumber single available black men, are we saying that because there aren’t enough black men to go around that a black woman should be deprived of a relationship, intimacy with a black man. I fully support polygamy in a legal sense, legal polygamy would strengthen the black community.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Jan 18

SenorCafeDa2nd
Male, Age Private, Paterson, NJ

Polygamy goes on every day in every city without the formalities that will land you in jail, If you homie got a steady girl and a girl on the side he in a polygamous relationship, it may be a secretive polygamous relationship but nevertheless its polygamous.

In the black community single available black women outnumber single available black men, are we saying that because there aren’t enough black men to go around that a black woman should be deprived of a relationship, intimacy with a black man. I fully support polygamy in a legal sense, legal polygamy would strengthen the black community.

what you just described is not polygyny but promiscurity. period.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Jan 18

In response to the question posed.

There are two forms of polygamy: Polyandry is the practice of a woman having more than husband.
Polygyny is the practice of a man having more than one wife.

Now let’s discuss.

Polygyny in the traditonal sense does not benefit the husband in the way that a ‘western’ mindest would believe. The benefits for the brother is that he has a larger family to continue his name once he has made the transition. Polygyny in it’s traditonal sense was designed to uplift the sisters. It ensured that no woman would go without the covering of a man in societies that had more women and that each woman would have a child…which is very important. It was also common amongst Matriarchal and Matrilineal socities b/c it is/was the women who control polygyny and how many sister wives there should be to a family.

Is it about a man having more sexual partners. No. It is a responsibilty and a man has to balance himself fairly amongst the sister or his family. why? Because it’s not up to him to go get another wife. It’s the wives/wife already involved who make that decision.

My grandfather was a polygynist when he was alive. He didn’t have a bunch of wives but he had two. Actually in my family we practice both forms of marriage. some of my family members are monogamous and some are polygamous. It can work if the people involved go into it with the right approach and heart.

With that said…not everyone can be a polygynist and for most it will be monogamy….but just to shatter some common myths though.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Jan 18

con: in most cases of polygamy , don’t the women stay at home? that means they’re not making any money, right? bad idea.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 18

Just read and interesting comment on wikipedia: the University of Cambridge in England, compared about 20 monogamous and polygynous vertebrate species, found the more polygynous a species was, the more likely their males were to age faster and die earlier than females.

I guess in that sense, it REALLY doesn’t benefit the husband, LOL. Maybe he’s wearing his body out by having to work harder to support all his wives and kids, and to have energy to fucc like bunnies.

The only time I hear about polygamy in the news, it involves some wayward white trash old Mormons in bumfucc, Idaho marrying little girls and pushing boys out of their communities. If Black men are allowed to marry more than one wife, would it lead to the same result? History certainly suggests it.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Jan 18

@all- i appreciate the commets. i agree with you all…..i was raised in a southern baptist home where monogamy was preached, but i felt very differently about the subject and had to end my first marriage because of that. i have been married and lived with more than 1 woman before and there were some things i had to get used to, but i loved it! i’ve always wanted a big family and my current wife is supporting of my lifestyle choice. i get put down all the time by women who think that my lifestyle choice makes me a bad person. i would like to meet other people who feel the same way i do……..i didnt choose this lifestyle for the sex, but because i can love more than 1 woman at once.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Jan 18

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@all- i appreciate the commets. i agree with you all…..i was raised in a southern baptist home where monogamy was preached, but i felt very differently about the subject and had to end my first marriage because of that. i have been married and lived with more than 1 woman before and there were some things i had to get used to, but i loved it! i’ve always wanted a big family and my current wife is supporting of my lifestyle choice. i get put down all the time by women who think that my lifestyle choice makes me a bad person. i would like to meet other people who feel the same way i do……..i didnt choose this lifestyle for the sex, but because i can love more than 1 woman at once.

So are you doing the choosing? Or is it left up to your wife?

What i don’t respect is groups where the choosing is done by the men.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Jan 18

Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Just read and interesting comment on wikipedia: the University of Cambridge in England, compared about 20 monogamous and polygynous vertebrate species, found the more polygynous a species was, the more likely their males were to age faster and die earlier than females.

I guess in that sense, it REALLY doesn’t benefit the husband, LOL. Maybe he’s wearing his body out by having to work harder to support all his wives and kids, and to have energy to fucc like bunnies.

The only time I hear about polygamy in the news, it involves some wayward white trash old Mormons in bumfucc, Idaho marrying little girls and pushing boys out of their communities. If Black men are allowed to marry more than one wife, would it lead to the same result? History certainly suggests it.

But those are coming from a eurocentric perspective. in most cases…we shouldn’t compare eurocentric systems of belief to pple of color. In non western societies…it is not what you described.

There is a traditonal way to approach polygyny and in some cases polyandry…the elders of the community and the women folk usually have a better insight on it.

As far as finances…most polygynist families that i know…have choosen the wives carefully. each sister brings a talent to the table. One family i know personally…one sister operates and run the family business and the other sister is a Ph.d holder who writes…bringing more income to the family. Of course the husband does the bulk of the background work for the business that they have. Actually it’s not about how many wives a man has or money…judging from what i’ve seen it’s about close knit families and happiness.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Jan 18

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

But those are coming from a eurocentric perspective. in most cases…we shouldn’t compare eurocentric systems of belief to pple of color. In non western societies…it is not what you described.

There is a traditonal way to approach polygyny and in some cases polyandry…the elders of the community and the women folk usually have a better insight on it.

As far as finances…most polygynist families that i know…have choosen the wives carefully. each sister brings a talent to the table. One family i know personally…one sister operates and run the family business and the other sister is a Ph.d holder who writes…bringing more income to the family. Of course the husband does the bulk of the background work for the business that they have. Actually it’s not about how many wives a man has or money…judging from what i’ve seen it’s about close knit families and happiness.

crystal, most of us live in a western european society, with western european mores, values and, most importantly LAWS.

most of the black folks in the u.s., canada grew up in a capitalistic western society, not an african or ‘eastern’ society. as such, those mores, values, etc. , simply mean little to us.

its agains the law to have multiple spouses in the u.s and canada. that aint gonna change anytime soon.

if it did, men compete with women for the SAME JOBS, therefore, almost by default, you’re likely not to have working women agree to share a husband who also works. that means the wives would have to be ‘stay at home’ and live off one income of the husband. that dont cut it in the modern world.

there are no financial, societal, legal benefits to having multiple spouses in the western world we live in. NONE.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Jan 18

smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

crystal, most of us live in a western european society, with western european mores, values and, most importantly LAWS.

most of the black folks in the u.s., canada grew up in a capitalistic western society, not an african or ‘eastern’ society. as such, those mores, values, etc. , simply mean little to us.

its agains the law to have multiple spouses in the u.s and canada. that aint gonna change anytime soon.

if it did, men compete with women for the SAME JOBS, therefore, almost by default, you’re likely not to have working women agree to share a husband who also works. that means the wives would have to be ‘stay at home’ and live off one income of the husband. that dont cut it in the modern world.

there are no financial, societal, legal benefits to having multiple spouses in the western world we live in. NONE.

And thats cool…

i was just wanting to explain to people that having multiple spouses was not about sex.

I’m not saying anybody in the U.S or Canada should even consider polygamy…i just get pretty darn upset when men and women try to compare promiscurity with monogamy or polygamy,not saying that you did…so many people just don’t respect the institution of marriage anymore.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Jan 19

@crystal- thank you so much for your imformative post. you’re right more sex is definitely not my goal…….the decision is mutual, but of course my wife’s vote counts twice since i’d have 0 wives vs. 2 if i went against her. & yes i do believe in the institution of marriage. people working together to achieve a common goal is a beautiful thing regardless of whether it be a romantic, political or business relationship.

@raven- i appreciate the facts. You’re right about dying early. a woman requires a lot of attention, but i enjoy the challenge. i would die happy if i could spend my life with the people i loved most……there are a lot of polygamous families in the US, but they dont get counted because it’s illegal. either 1 is married or they dont get married at all which is a fast increasing number of families in the US. filing different address is also a common practice. i think a lot of people like myself dont consider themselves polygamist, but practice it. keep in mind im not talking about those immature guys who are married and have a girl on the side. polygamy is actively and openly being married to more than 1 woman or visa versa. (havent you ever seen a man walking or driving with two women? they may be together, you never know.)

@smack- im sorry, i dont understand what you’re talking about. What are the pros & cons of polygamy other than the obvious legal ramifications?

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Jan 19

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@crystal- thank you so much for your imformative post. you’re right more sex is definitely not my goal…….the decision is mutual, but of course my wife’s vote counts twice since i’d have 0 wives vs. 2 if i went against her. & yes i do believe in the institution of marriage. people working together to achieve a common goal is a beautiful thing regardless of whether it be a romantic, political or business relationship.

@raven- i appreciate the facts. You’re right about dying early. a woman requires a lot of attention, but i enjoy the challenge. i would die happy if i could spend my life with the people i loved most……there are a lot of polygamous families in the US, but they dont get counted because it’s illegal. either 1 is married or they dont get married at all which is a fast increasing number of families in the US. filing different address is also a common practice. i think a lot of people like myself dont consider themselves polygamist, but practice it. keep in mind im not t
show morealking about those immature guys who are married and have a girl on the side. polygamy is actively and openly being married to more than 1 woman or visa versa. (havent you ever seen a man walking or driving with two women? they may be together, you never know.) @smack- im sorry, i dont understand what you’re talking about. What are the pros & cons of polygamy other than the obvious legal ramifications?
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no pros, as far as i can see.

cons? well, you have to include ‘legal’ because thats a BIG part of it.

another con…most women in those relationships dont work, and thus one man, three people plus kids equal ‘not for me’.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 19

Cons:

– estate laws which would automatically rollover to the legal spouse and legal children and leaves out the rest of the ‘wives’. Includes home, pension, insurance, social security, etc.

– Hospital visitation rights and medical decisions going to the legal spouse. Other ‘wives’ are left out of that decision.

– liability in divorce courts if one of your non-legal wives leaves you and tries to sue you in court for marriage benefits under the common-law marriage regulation.

– Only one wife can have your legal name. The rest is azz out.

– Your employer benefits recognizes only your legal wife and legal dependents. All your other wives and kids have to cover their own insurance, dental benefits, health benefits, etc, which is super expensive.

– You have to make enough to support your large family. Sure, you MAY (not guaranteed) have three incomes, but instead of scales of economies you will experience diminishing returns. (That means your living expenses are higher.)

– You have to deal with the negative stigma of being a polygamist from society. Society frown upon polygamy–Polygamists are viewed as bigoted, religious freaks, that inbreed. There might be social implications for your children growing up in that kind of environment.

– Wives have to share your affection. I’m selfish and I want ALL my husband’s affection.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 19

Not to mention that the polygamist husband dies earlier than the monogamous one. No studies on their happiness level, but I do know that happy people live longer. So this suggests that the polygamist husband probably has to deal with more stress and health issues than the monogamous husband. Probably has to put up with PMS and nagging times 2+ wives.

As for pros, don’t really see any that stands out.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Jan 22

Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Not to mention that the polygamist husband dies earlier than the monogamous one. No studies on their happiness level, but I do know that happy people live longer. So this suggests that the polygamist husband probably has to deal with more stress and health issues than the monogamous husband. Probably has to put up with PMS and nagging times 2+ wives.

As for pros, don’t really see any that stands out.

and it still also depends on social values, customs, and traditons.

You can’t take what you just said and apply it to non western societies. Now what really stood out in your last post was this

Wives have to share your affection. I’m selfish and I want ALL my husband’s affection

so let me ask you, if your husband broke his commitment to fidelity..isn’t that the same thing? Are you not sharing his affections then?

In polygynist or polyandrist marriages..everyone receives due respect,loyalty,time,love,etc..

My point is the form of marriage isn’t really the issue….many people in monogamous marriages can’t even seem to grasp the whole of marriage…and marriage is not about ‘you’ or ‘i’ or ‘my needs’…it’s about the bigger picture and that is ‘We’, whether it’s monogamous or polygamous.

just my take.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 22

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

and it still also depends on social values, customs, and traditons.

You can’t take what you just said and apply it to non western societies. Now what really stood out in your last post was this

Wives have to share your affection. I’m selfish and I want ALL my husband’s affection

so let me ask you, if your husband broke his commitment to fidelity..isn’t that the same thing? Are you not sharing his affections then?

In polygynist or polyandrist marriages..everyone receives due respect,loyalty,time,love,etc..

My point is the form of marriage isn’t really the issue….many people in monogamous marriages can’t even seem to grasp the whole of marriage…and marriage is not about ‘you’ or ‘i’ or ‘my needs’…it’s about the bigger picture and that is ‘We’, whether it’s monogamous or polygamous.

just my take.

Crystal, I really appreciate your perspective, even though I don’t agree with it. With that said:

“You can’t take what you just said and apply it to non western societies.”

We live in a western society and have to live within it’s values, customs, traditions and LAW. While I live here in ole USA, I ain’t going to JAIL for subscribing to marriage arrangements of some non-western tribes.

” Now what really stood out in your last post was this

Wives have to share your affection. I’m selfish and I want ALL my husband’s affection

so let me ask you, if your husband broke his commitment to fidelity..isn’t that the same thing? Are you not sharing his affections then?”

Nope, entirely different. One is sharing affections knowingly and willingly, the other is a result of infidelity and betrayal.

“In polygynist or polyandrist marriages..everyone receives due respect,loyalty,time,love,etc..”

Yah, OK. Tell that to the Supreme Court (and the victimes) who convicted Warren Jeffs in May 2006, leader of a Mormon fundamentalist polygynist sect, for illegal arrangement of marriage of his male followers with underage girsl, sexual misconduct with minors and incest, and accomplice to rape.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Jan 24

@all- again thank you so much for this discussion. i find it terribly difficult to discuss this matter openly with other intelligent people. i really appreciate it. 🙂

@raven- that selfishness is exactly what drove me to polygamy. i dont want to be anyones property……the happiness aspect is relative. im happier now in a polygamous relationship than i was in a monogamous relationship. i cant deal with the selfishness……..children can function well in a polygamous relationship. i understood as a child that my mom was my mom and mrs. sanders was someone who loved me and was deserving of the same respect as any adult (no different than step-mom). i never knew there was anything wrong with my dad being alone with another woman; it was normal to me……in addition, i dont know how people could even get caught in a polygamous relationship. it would take someone to report to the police that a couple is having sex and living with another adult, and even then; whats illegal about that?? i dont have any kids, but im confident that the children wont grow up with 2 mommies, but rather with a mom, dad and mommies friend who helps. (something like a live-in nanny who works too)
wills, new insurance policies for non-family members, and prenups keep all the legal matters under control. as far as taking a name. i wouldnt ask any woman i marry to take my name, (thats a dumb tradition in my opinion) however i would like my children to have my last name for legal purposes……..& it is true that women require a lot of attention, thus more work for me, but i think it’s worth it. i like to work for my woman…………….there is nothing like a woman’s love and to have women working as a team to love you is 2x 3x better……….expenses balance themselves out. just imagine 3 people living alone, paying seperate rent and providing for their own expenses. the upside is pooling those resources from 3 people and consolidating expenses; it actually comes out cheaper. the trick is to buy everything in bulk as far as lotion, tampons, hair products etc…the upside is having another woman to do hair. dividing up responsibilities and chores is a plus too

@crystal- the decision is mutual, but my wife’s vote gets counted twice since i’d hav 0 wives vs. 2 if i went against her. lol. plus she’s cuter, everyone likes her better than me anyway. lol

@smack- women work in monogamous relationships as well as polygamous relationships.

@all- I think it takes maturity, confidence, and a real love for a person to be able to share their mate with family, friends or another lover.

Do you think that polygamy should even be illegal? why or why not?

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POLYGAMY Pros & Cons? Please Comment (64) Reply Comments Options
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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Jan 24

SenorCafeDa2nd
Male, Age Private, Paterson, NJ

Polygamy goes on every day in every city without the formalities that will land you in jail, If you homie got a steady girl and a girl on the side he in a polygamous relationship, it may be a secretive polygamous relationship but nevertheless its polygamous.

In the black community single available black women outnumber single available black men, are we saying that because there aren’t enough black men to go around that a black woman should be deprived of a relationship, intimacy with a black man. I fully support polygamy in a legal sense, legal polygamy would strengthen the black community.

GROWN MEN ARE HONEST BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE. in order for any relationship to work there has to be communication and honesty. not telling your spouse about another relationship or sexual encounter is a break down in communication.
if you’re excited about meeting someone new or having a great sexual experience and you cant share that joy with your wife, then why is she your wife? a life partner should be someone who you can share everything with without having to feel judged or put down. support is what everyone wants. if a woman cant support your lifestyle than dont waste her/your time marrying her because the relationship will never work. first you have to know yourself before you can tell someone else who you are.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Jan 24

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@all- again thank you so much for this discussion. i find it terribly difficult to discuss this matter openly with other intelligent people. i really appreciate it. 🙂

@raven- that selfishness is exactly what drove me to polygamy. i dont want to be anyones property……the happiness aspect is relative. im happier now in a polygamous relationship than i was in a monogamous relationship. i cant deal with the selfishness……..children can function well in a polygamous relationship. i understood as a child that my mom was my mom and mrs. sanders was someone who loved me and was deserving of the same respect as any adult (no different than step-mom). i never knew there was anything wrong with my dad being alone with another woman; it was normal to me……in addition, i dont know how people could even get caught in a polygamous relationship. it would take someone to report to the police that a couple is having sex and living with another adult, and even then; whats illegal about that??
show more i dont have any kids, but im confident that the children wont grow up with 2 mommies, but rather with a mom, dad and mommies friend who helps. (something like a live-in nanny who works too) wills, new insurance policies for non-family members, and prenups keep all the legal matters under control. as far as taking a name. i wouldnt ask any woman i marry to take my name, (thats a dumb tradition in my opinion) however i would like my children to have my last name for legal purposes……..& it is true that women require a lot of attention, thus more work for me, but i think it’s worth it. i like to work for my woman…………….there is nothing like a woman’s love and to have women working as a team to love you is 2x 3x better……….expenses balance themselves out. just imagine 3 people living alone, paying seperate rent and providing for their own expenses. the upside is pooling those resources from 3 people and consolidating expenses; it actually comes out cheaper. the trick is to buy everything in bulk as far as lotion, tampons, hair products etc…the upside is having another woman to do hair. dividing up responsibilities and chores is a plus too @crystal- the decision is mutual, but my wife’s vote gets counted twice since i’d hav 0 wives vs. 2 if i went against her. lol. plus she’s cuter, everyone likes her better than me anyway. lol @smack- women work in monogamous relationships as well as polygamous relationships. @all- I think it takes maturity, confidence, and a real love for a person to be able to share their mate with family, friends or another lover. Do you think that polygamy should even be illegal? why or why not??
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i think it should stay illegal.

as you see the ‘advantages’ of it, i see nothing but disadvantages, and its ripe for abuse (see the folks in utah and other places where the older, more established men drive off the teen aged boys and young men, to limit competition).

as its not for me, and i have nothing to gain by making it legal, i say keep it illegal.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 25

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@all- again thank you so much for this discussion. i find it terribly difficult to discuss this matter openly with other intelligent people. i really appreciate it. 🙂

@raven- that selfishness is exactly what drove me to polygamy. i dont want to be anyones property……the happiness aspect is relative. im happier now in a polygamous relationship than i was in a monogamous relationship. i cant deal with the selfishness……..children can function well in a polygamous relationship. i understood as a child that my mom was my mom and mrs. sanders was someone who loved me and was deserving of the same respect as any adult (no different than step-mom). i never knew there was anything wrong with my dad being alone with another woman; it was normal to me……in addition, i dont know how people could even get caught in a polygamous relationship. it would take someone to report to the police that a couple is having sex and living with another adult, and even then; whats illegal about that??
show more i dont have any kids, but im confident that the children wont grow up with 2 mommies, but rather with a mom, dad and mommies friend who helps. (something like a live-in nanny who works too) wills, new insurance policies for non-family members, and prenups keep all the legal matters under control. as far as taking a name. i wouldnt ask any woman i marry to take my name, (thats a dumb tradition in my opinion) however i would like my children to have my last name for legal purposes……..& it is true that women require a lot of attention, thus more work for me, but i think it’s worth it. i like to work for my woman…………….there is nothing like a woman’s love and to have women working as a team to love you is 2x 3x better……….expenses balance themselves out. just imagine 3 people living alone, paying seperate rent and providing for their own expenses. the upside is pooling those resources from 3 people and consolidating expenses; it actually comes out cheaper. the trick is to buy everything in bulk as far as lotion, tampons, hair products etc…the upside is having another woman to do hair. dividing up responsibilities and chores is a plus too @crystal- the decision is mutual, but my wife’s vote gets counted twice since i’d hav 0 wives vs. 2 if i went against her. lol. plus she’s cuter, everyone likes her better than me anyway. lol @smack- women work in monogamous relationships as well as polygamous relationships. @all- I think it takes maturity, confidence, and a real love for a person to be able to share their mate with family, friends or another lover. Do you think that polygamy should even be illegal? why or why not??
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“@raven- that selfishness is exactly what drove me to polygamy. i dont want to be anyones property……the happiness aspect is relative. im happier now in a polygamous relationship than i was in a monogamous relationship. i cant deal with the selfishness……..”

Actually, you’re the selfish one. That’s the irony. Your legal wife (if you have one) or your babymommas are the selfless ones. I just hope they are truly happy in this arrangement…othrwise you’ll get a whole lot drama.

“…children can function well in a polygamous relationship. i understood as a child that my mom was my mom and mrs. sanders was someone who loved me and was deserving of the same respect as any adult (no different than step-mom). i never knew there was anything wrong with my dad being alone with another woman; it was normal to me…”

A child raised up in incestual relationship won’t know that it ain’t normal either. Probably even felt ‘loved’ too…until they realize society frowns on those relationships.

“…in addition, i dont know how people could even get caught in a polygamous relationship. it would take someone to report to the police that a couple is having sex and living with another adult, and even then; whats illegal about that?? i dont have any kids, but im confident that the children wont grow up with 2 mommies, but rather with a mom, dad and mommies friend who helps.”

Dude, you’re not caught in illegal polygamy relationship because you don’t have two wives. You just have either 1) one wife and one concubine or 2) two babymommas. So there’s nothing to report to the police.

“wills, new insurance policies for non-family members, and prenups keep all the legal matters under control.”

Most, but not all legal matters are covered. See my above post regarding what a non-legal wife is missing out.

“…as far as taking a name. i wouldnt ask any woman i marry to take my name, (thats a dumb tradition in my opinion)”

But if your concubines WANT your last name, they CAN”T because they ain’t MARRIED to you.

“………expenses balance themselves out. just imagine 3 people living alone, paying seperate rent and providing for their own expenses. the upside is pooling those resources from 3 people and consolidating expenses; it actually comes out cheaper. ”

OK, I’ll give you this one. Just know that if they want extended health or dental coverage, they can’t get it covered because they aren’t your legal spouse.

“the trick is to buy everything in bulk as far as lotion, tampons, hair products etc…the upside is having another woman to do hair. dividing up responsibilities and chores is a plus too”

What, as a couple, you can’t buy in bulk? I do my own hair, so having another women do my hair ain’t a perk.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Jan 25

“Do you think that polygamy should even be illegal? why or why not??”

Yes, it should remain illegal.

1) our society and law supports the couple arrangement. If we change the law, you would have to change the whole system (from taxes to estate laws) to accommodate the extra spouses. That’s a massive effort and requires ALOT of taxpayer’s money to make the change. That’s not even counting the cost that taxpayers and corporations have to bear to MAINTAIN the polygamy arrangement. Now, instead of covering the employment benefits of their employees’ one spouse and dependents, they gotta cover it for all their other spouses. If you have an inkling of how much these benefits cost the corporations, you won’t be surprise if they resist it.

2) It goes against American’s christian values of one-man-one-woman marriage institute. In other words, it’s immoral.

3) It disrupts the natural competition of the marriable market.

4) It’s well known that a divorce is very costly…and that’s only for one wife! If polygamy was legal, and a couple of your wives want divorce, that’s enough to bankrupt you.

5) Polygamy opens up the women and their kids for neglect, abuse, jealousy and abandonment.

6) Gender inequity–Polygamy, the most common being men with multiple wives, benefits men.

So as you can see, it puts society at a huge disadvantage for supporting polygamy just so YOU can be happy.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Feb 15

@ravenesque- i apologize for not replying sooner……women in polygamous relationships are happier in those relationships as well. i’ve been in only one marriage involving more than 1 wife and both women were happy with the arrangement.
DISRUPTS NATURAL COMPETITION???
who’s competing with who??
there r generally more women than men, leaving a lot of single women.

divorce is the worst thing that could ever happen. i believe in prenups, but other than that trusting my previous common law wives not to sue is a problem i’ve never had. i think women only sue when the guy lies to her or if they never communicated with each other about the subject. i have a good understanding with anyone i get involved with: no police & no lawyers & they’ve always agreed. if i couldnt trust them to uphold that agreement then i wouldnt involve myself with them.

I’m curious……wut do u mean by wanting all of ur husband’s affection?? hypothetically speaking; wouldnt ur husband show his friends, family and children affection? r u really tryin to say u want to control who ur husband shows affection to? do u want ur husband to tell u who u can b affectionate with?

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Feb 28

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@ravenesque- i apologize for not replying sooner……women in polygamous relationships are happier in those relationships as well. i’ve been in only one marriage involving more than 1 wife and both women were happy with the arrangement.
DISRUPTS NATURAL COMPETITION???
who’s competing with who??
there r generally more women than men, leaving a lot of single women.

divorce is the worst thing that could ever happen. i believe in prenups, but other than that trusting my previous common law wives not to sue is a problem i’ve never had. i think women only sue when the guy lies to her or if they never communicated with each other about the subject. i have a good understanding with anyone i get involved with: no police & no lawyers & they’ve always agreed. if i couldnt trust them to uphold that agreement then i wouldnt involve myself with them.

I’m curious……wut do u mean by wanting all of ur husband’s affection?? hypothetically speaking; wouldnt ur husband show his friends, family and c
show morehildren affection? r u really tryin to say u want to control who ur husband shows affection to? do u want ur husband to tell u who u can b affectionate with?
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“@ravenesque- i apologize for not replying sooner……women in polygamous relationships are happier in those relationships as well. i’ve been in only one marriage involving more than 1 wife and both women were happy with the arrangement.”

That’s YOUR opinion and your experience. There is no studies out there that proves women in polygamous relationships are happier. That’s just bullshyt you pulled out of your azz to justify your illegal marriages.

“DISRUPTS NATURAL COMPETITION???
who’s competing with who??
there r generally more women than men, leaving a lot of single women.”

It disrupts the supply and demand, hence the competition in the dating market in a society that is built on the marriage of TWO people.

“divorce is the worst thing that could ever happen. i believe in prenups, but other than that trusting my previous common law wives not to sue is a problem i’ve never had. i think women only sue when the guy lies to her or if they never communicated with each other about the subject. i have a good understanding with anyone i get involved with: no police & no lawyers & they’ve always agreed. if i couldnt trust them to uphold that agreement then i wouldnt involve myself with them.”

Smart people cover their azzes legally.

“I’m curious……wut do u mean by wanting all of ur husband’s affection?? hypothetically speaking; wouldnt ur husband show his friends, family and children affection? r u really tryin to say u want to control who ur husband shows affection to? do u want ur husband to tell u who u can b affectionate with? ”

Husband-wife affection is NOT the same affection between friends, family members, and children. Your rationale and subsequent question are immature.

One of the major reason why I am opposed to polygamy (other than the many reasons I highlighted above in my posts) is that it reinforces patriarchial power for the man to benefit the man. That is offensive.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Feb 29

@raven- i appreciate your thoughts and comments. i understand why you feel that way. i guess less available women would be a bad thing, and we definitely don’t need extra competition amongst men.
but
what is the difference in husband-wife affection vs. friends’ affection besides sex?
how does polygamy give more power to the man?

i think there is a way to write a contract expressing that a man and woman are not common law and that either are entitled to alimony. i’m gonna look into it. i mean roomates have to have some kind of legal protection against common law laws; right?.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Feb 29

Polygamy is an outmoded practice from history when women were nothing but property and not a person in terms of having rights. Just as a man with many cows underlines his financial status, a man with many wives does so too.

Secondly, women are married off as second, third, fourth, twentieth wife are often done not out of love but out of economic and political alliances. In this example, women are used as collateral to a contract. A prime example is King Solomon in the bible.

Thirdly, researchers into polygamy in Turkey believe the practice is a hangover from having many harems to demonstrate the man’s power, sexual prowess and wealth.

Again, women are being used and as property, often abused.

Let me ask you this…as chattel property without rights, what do women get out of this arrangement? NOTHING. Polygamy benefits the man.

I despise this disgusting practice, and any women agreeing to it are backwards.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Feb 29

“what is the difference in husband-wife affection vs. friends’ affection besides sex?”

Tell me, do you cuddle with your friend, call him/her names of endearment, touch him/her fondly as you would with a spouse?

Greek philosophers at the time of Plato and other ancient authors have differentiate love (“agape”) from love of a spouse or family, or affection for a particular activity, in contrast to “philia”, an affection that could denote either brotherhood or generally non-sexual affection, and “eros”, an affection of a sexual nature.

There is a difference.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Feb 29

Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Polygamy is an outmoded practice from history when women were nothing but property and not a person in terms of having rights. Just as a man with many cows underlines his financial status, a man with many wives does so too.

Secondly, women are married off as second, third, fourth, twentieth wife are often done not out of love but out of economic and political alliances. In this example, women are used as collateral to a contract. A prime example is King Solomon in the bible.

Thirdly, researchers into polygamy in Turkey believe the practice is a hangover from having many harems to demonstrate the man’s power, sexual prowess and wealth.

Again, women are being used and as property, often abused.

Let me ask you this…as chattel property without rights, what do women get out of this arrangement? NOTHING. Polygamy benefits the man.

I despise this disgusting practice, and any women agreeing to it are backwards.

“I despise this disgusting practice, and any women agreeing to it are backwards”.

You can only analyze it from the eurocentric worldview. If you want to talk African tradition then that’s different. In the traditional way, polygyny is not decided by the men. It is/was women traditionally who made the decision. Polygyny ensured that a woman’s lineage was continued when women out number men by natural selection. If a man has to be responsible for a family…and polygyny is not about patriarchy, or chattel…this is a Huge responsiblity for a man finacially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually(if you want to go there)..trust me from experience…

he is not benefitting the way you believe he is. Any slip made…and that’s his responsiblity. It’s not the rest of the family who have to keep things in order.

and if people are over emphasizing sex instead of letting it be natural..then the form of marriage has no real substance whether it’s monogamy or polygamy.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Feb 29

@raven- women still have property rights in a polygamous relationship & like crystal says, women still have all the power; “trust me from experience.” monogamy is 1:1 vote with the woman winning 50% of the time. if you add another woman the vote is 2:1. trust me, women stick together. if i want to watch something on tv, i have to get permission from two women; im always outnumbered.
& remember for me my polygamous relationship goes both ways. my wife just told me last night how she met this guy she really liked and how she could see him moving in. i was happy for her. i love her and because i know what kind of person she is, i trust her to choose the right person. besides if she loves him and he loves her then i love him too. i dont have to have sex, cuddle or kiss him to love him. besides having another guy around would be cool. i would finally have someone to take my side on tv programming. lol

i don’t think you’ve ever seen a nodern polygamous relationship other than what’s on TV. you’re still thinking of polygamy at a time when women didn’t have any rights. in a modern polygamous relationship it’s no different than living with your best girlfriend: you have your things, she has hers, and ya’ll share some things.

loving someone has nothing to do with sex, power or property. love is love. cuddling, kissing, & touching are all forms of sex. i can love someone and marry someone without sex being involved. i love someone because of who they are, not because we have sex. furthermore, i dont characterize relationships based on sex. iv had sex with friends i was attracted to who just remained friends and i havent had sex with friends i was attracted to who just remained friends. i love them all the same. me and my ex-wife are still friends and i plan on us double-dating in the next week. i love her no different than i loved her the day we got married. the difference between a wife and a friend is not sex; me and my wife share things together, like money, food, and household responsibilities. if i lose, she losses and vice versa; thats what makes a marriage, not cuddling and kissing.

@crystal- are you currently in a polygamous relationship or were in a polygamous relationship here in the states??

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Feb 29

@raven- sorry. just to clarify. yes i do cuddle with my friends, kiss them, hug them, and i have terms of endearment for each one of them. i must admit that i dont cuddle or kiss my male friends though, but we do the handshake/hug thing and we all have nicknames for each other. pop, bigdog, kenfolk etc. the girls have girly names like sugaduga & tt.

arent you friends with anyone you’ve had sex with? or friends with someone you’re attracted to, but decided to just remain friends?
and if you’re still friends would you disown them if you got married or got sexually involved with someone else?

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Feb 29

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

“I despise this disgusting practice, and any women agreeing to it are backwards”.

You can only analyze it from the eurocentric worldview. If you want to talk African tradition then that’s different. In the traditional way, polygyny is not decided by the men. It is/was women traditionally who made the decision. Polygyny ensured that a woman’s lineage was continued when women out number men by natural selection. If a man has to be responsible for a family…and polygyny is not about patriarchy, or chattel…this is a Huge responsiblity for a man finacially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually(if you want to go there)..trust me from experience…

he is not benefitting the way you believe he is. Any slip made…and that’s his responsiblity. It’s not the rest of the family who have to keep things in order.

and if people are over emphasizing sex instead of letting it be natural..then the form of marriage has no real substance whether it’s monogamy or polygamy.

maybe , maybe not. the ‘afrocentric view’ is simply not worth anything in a eurocentric society that has laws against polygamy.

african americans make up a SMALL minority (14%) that, even if all were on board for polygamy (and the vast majority aren’t) it would mean squat because the overwhelming percentage of this country (86%) are not afro-centric in thought.

if afrocentric values, as a daily thing, are important, then you must live in an afrocentric society who’s laws allow polygamy.

for ME, raven and most other african americans in the united states, no matter what anybody says, there’s no benefit to polygamy in THIS society.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Feb 29

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@raven- sorry. just to clarify. yes i do cuddle with my friends, kiss them, hug them, and i have terms of endearment for each one of them. i must admit that i dont cuddle or kiss my male friends though, but we do the handshake/hug thing and we all have nicknames for each other. pop, bigdog, kenfolk etc. the girls have girly names like sugaduga & tt.

arent you friends with anyone you’ve had sex with? or friends with someone you’re attracted to, but decided to just remain friends?
and if you’re still friends would you disown them if you got married or got sexually involved with someone else?

“@raven- sorry. just to clarify. yes i do cuddle with my friends, kiss them, hug them, and i have terms of endearment for each one of them. i must admit that i dont cuddle or kiss my male friends though, but we do the handshake/hug thing and we all have nicknames for each other. pop, bigdog, kenfolk etc. the girls have girly names like sugaduga & tt.”

i see this forum is still going strong. i’ll answer, as a man, for raven since i see this question.

no, i don’t ‘cuddle’ with my woman friends, be they ‘friends’ or ‘exgirlfriends’. hug when they initiate, but no wrap around. i’m not a hugger and kisser of people not in my family and who isnt my wife.

i don’t like ‘the man hug’, and rarely do it. i do the soul shake, and have very few nicknames for them. that’s me, though.

“arent you friends with anyone you’ve had sex with? ”

i’m friends with ex girlfriends, but as i have a wife, there’s a certain amount of respectful distance they give me, as i give them. no need to be hugging/kissing my ex girlfriends.

“or friends with someone you’re attracted to, but decided to just remain friends?”

as i’m married , i’m not attracted to other women…i got MY ideal lady. i gotta think that if raven has a man, she’d follow a similar path.

“and if you’re still friends would you disown them if you got married or got sexually involved with someone else? ”

there’s a difference between ‘not hugging’, ‘not kissing’, ‘not cuddling’ with my ex’s and ‘disowning’ them.

there’s simply no place in american society (at least for the VAST MAJORITY of people and black folks) for a polygamous relationship. no amount of justification from the few proponents of polygamy will sway the majority to legalize it.

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bodyguard12
Male, 35, Philadelphia, PA

Posted Feb 29

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

In response to the question posed.

There are two forms of polygamy: Polyandry is the practice of a woman having more than husband.
Polygyny is the practice of a man having more than one wife.

Now let’s discuss.

Polygyny in the traditonal sense does not benefit the husband in the way that a ‘western’ mindest would believe. The benefits for the brother is that he has a larger family to continue his name once he has made the transition. Polygyny in it’s traditonal sense was designed to uplift the sisters. It ensured that no woman would go without the covering of a man in societies that had more women and that each woman would have a child…which is very important. It was also common amongst Matriarchal and Matrilineal socities b/c it is/was the women who control polygyny and how many sister wives there should be to a family.

Is it about a man having more sexual partners. No. It is a responsibilty and a man has to balance himself fairly amongst the sister or his family. why? Because
show moreit’s not up to him to go get another wife. It’s the wives/wife already involved who make that decision. My grandfather was a polygynist when he was alive. He didn’t have a bunch of wives but he had two. Actually in my family we practice both forms of marriage. some of my family members are monogamous and some are polygamous. It can work if the people involved go into it with the right approach and heart. With that said…not everyone can be a polygynist and for most it will be monogamy….but just to shatter some common myths though.
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in some ways i agree but in some i dont. biblically in no way did a woman decide if her husband could marry another. that would give her authority over a man in that and that goes against the bible (1st Corinthians 11:8 ; 1st Tim 2:12) secondly a man having more than one wife was to speedily bring forth the nation of Israel and that was never done away with. With the knowledge of the Lord any man can have more than one wife if he so chooses.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 1

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

“I despise this disgusting practice, and any women agreeing to it are backwards”.

You can only analyze it from the eurocentric worldview. If you want to talk African tradition then that’s different. In the traditional way, polygyny is not decided by the men. It is/was women traditionally who made the decision. Polygyny ensured that a woman’s lineage was continued when women out number men by natural selection. If a man has to be responsible for a family…and polygyny is not about patriarchy, or chattel…this is a Huge responsiblity for a man finacially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually(if you want to go there)..trust me from experience…

he is not benefitting the way you believe he is. Any slip made…and that’s his responsiblity. It’s not the rest of the family who have to keep things in order.

and if people are over emphasizing sex instead of letting it be natural..then the form of marriage has no real substance whether it’s monogamy or polygamy.

“You can only analyze it from the eurocentric worldview. If you want to talk African tradition then that’s different.”

No, it’s not. Polygyny is practiced in various of countries in history (i.e. classical China, Africa, India, Classical Greece). What’s common in those countries that allow polygyny to flourish or be accepted? Here’s my observation:

1) Is the Country/Society patriarchal? YES!
2) Are women viewed as slaves (cheap labor), property and have no rights? YES!

And when I say any women agreeing to this arrangement [voluntarily] are backwards, sure enough, you come running in here pointing to traditional African women. You proved my point! Tribal African women were ignorant and backwards! (through no fault of their own. They were brought up that way to be suppressed.)

“In the traditional way, polygyny is not decided by the men. It is/was women traditionally who made the decision. Polygyny ensured that a woman’s lineage was continued when women out number men by natural selection. If a man has to be responsible for a family…and polygyny is not about patriarchy, or chattel…this is a Huge responsiblity for a man finacially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually(if you want to go there)..trust me from experience…”

You’re talking about a society that practiced female genital mutilation! And you tell me women have the power to make decision about whom their husband marry? Yah right! This from a culture that does not permit women to refuse sex because it is viewed as their duty to please their men? You know why girls got their wagina sewed up?–to preserve their virginity and protect their BRIDE PRICE price. So YES, polygyny was very much about partriarchy, slavery (as in cheap labor), and chattel.

“and if people are over emphasizing sex instead of letting it be natural..then the form of marriage has no real substance whether it’s monogamy or polygamy.”

Since you like to talk African tradition and sex being natural, polygyny was practiced in cultures that also practiced female circumcision/mutilation. If they were so concerned about natural sex, why do this to women?

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 1

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@raven- women still have property rights in a polygamous relationship & like crystal says, women still have all the power; “trust me from experience.” monogamy is 1:1 vote with the woman winning 50% of the time. if you add another woman the vote is 2:1. trust me, women stick together. if i want to watch something on tv, i have to get permission from two women; im always outnumbered.
& remember for me my polygamous relationship goes both ways. my wife just told me last night how she met this guy she really liked and how she could see him moving in. i was happy for her. i love her and because i know what kind of person she is, i trust her to choose the right person. besides if she loves him and he loves her then i love him too. i dont have to have sex, cuddle or kiss him to love him. besides having another guy around would be cool. i would finally have someone to take my side on tv programming. lol

i don’t think you’ve ever seen a nodern polygamous relationship other than what’s on TV.
show moreyou’re still thinking of polygamy at a time when women didn’t have any rights. in a modern polygamous relationship it’s no different than living with your best girlfriend: you have your things, she has hers, and ya’ll share some things. loving someone has nothing to do with sex, power or property. love is love. cuddling, kissing, & touching are all forms of sex. i can love someone and marry someone without sex being involved. i love someone because of who they are, not because we have sex. furthermore, i dont characterize relationships based on sex. iv had sex with friends i was attracted to who just remained friends and i havent had sex with friends i was attracted to who just remained friends. i love them all the same. me and my ex-wife are still friends and i plan on us double-dating in the next week. i love her no different than i loved her the day we got married. the difference between a wife and a friend is not sex; me and my wife share things together, like money, food, and household responsibilities. if i lose, she losses and vice versa; thats what makes a marriage, not cuddling and kissing. @crystal- are you currently in a polygamous relationship or were in a polygamous relationship here in the states??
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“@raven- women still have property rights in a polygamous relationship & like crystal says, women still have all the power; “trust me from experience.” monogamy is 1:1 vote with the woman winning 50% of the time. if you add another woman the vote is 2:1. trust me, women stick together. if i want to watch something on tv, i have to get permission from two women; im always outnumbered.
& remember for me my polygamous relationship goes both ways. my wife just told me last night how she met this guy she really liked and how she could see him moving in. i was happy for her. i love her and because i know what kind of person she is, i trust her to choose the right person. besides if she loves him and he loves her then i love him too. i dont have to have sex, cuddle or kiss him to love him. besides having another guy around would be cool. i would finally have someone to take my side on tv programming. lol”

Not to let you down, but NO, I don’t trust you. And I wish you didn’t reveal this–now I have a vision of you, your wives, their lovers in a group orgy soaking in a cesspool of STDs. (shudders) Eeewww.

“i don’t think you’ve ever seen a nodern polygamous relationship other than what’s on TV. you’re still thinking of polygamy at a time when women didn’t have any rights. in a modern polygamous relationship it’s no different than living with your best girlfriend: you have your things, she has hers, and ya’ll share some things.”

Actually, I’ve seen modern polygamous relationships–those breakaway lily-white Mormon sects who live in Bumfucc, Utah, whose wives and children do hard farm labor, whose very patriarchal structure gives power to the men, who then abuse their wives and rape their children/cousins/nieces, push out the young boys, and arranged forced marriages of underaged girls to old men in the community. Not so coincidently, due to the lower position of women, they are ignorant and backwards! All this happening in the modern wonderful world of America. That’s modern polygamous relationship for you.

“loving someone has nothing to do with sex, power or property. love is love. cuddling, kissing, & touching are all forms of sex. i can love someone and marry someone without sex being involved. i love someone because of who they are, not because we have sex. furthermore, i dont characterize relationships based on sex. iv had sex with friends i was attracted to who just remained friends and i havent had sex with friends i was attracted to who just remained friends. i love them all the same. me and my ex-wife are still friends and i plan on us double-dating in the next week. i love her no different than i loved her the day we got married. the difference between a wife and a friend is not sex; me and my wife share things together, like money, food, and household responsibilities. if i lose, she losses and vice versa; thats what makes a marriage, not cuddling and kissing.

Like I said, I have a mental image of a cesspool of STDs.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 1

smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

“@raven- sorry. just to clarify. yes i do cuddle with my friends, kiss them, hug them, and i have terms of endearment for each one of them. i must admit that i dont cuddle or kiss my male friends though, but we do the handshake/hug thing and we all have nicknames for each other. pop, bigdog, kenfolk etc. the girls have girly names like sugaduga & tt.”

i see this forum is still going strong. i’ll answer, as a man, for raven since i see this question.

no, i don’t ‘cuddle’ with my woman friends, be they ‘friends’ or ‘exgirlfriends’. hug when they initiate, but no wrap around. i’m not a hugger and kisser of people not in my family and who isnt my wife.

i don’t like ‘the man hug’, and rarely do it. i do the soul shake, and have very few nicknames for them. that’s me, though.

“arent you friends with anyone you’ve had sex with? ”

i’m friends with ex girlfriends, but as i have a wife, there’s a certain amount of respectful distance they give me, as i give them. no need to be huggi
show moreng/kissing my ex girlfriends. “or friends with someone you’re attracted to, but decided to just remain friends?” as i’m married , i’m not attracted to other women…i got MY ideal lady. i gotta think that if raven has a man, she’d follow a similar path. “and if you’re still friends would you disown them if you got married or got sexually involved with someone else? ” there’s a difference between ‘not hugging’, ‘not kissing’, ‘not cuddling’ with my ex’s and ‘disowning’ them. there’s simply no place in american society (at least for the VAST MAJORITY of people and black folks) for a polygamous relationship. no amount of justification from the few proponents of polygamy will sway the majority to legalize it.
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A strange fellow this Texan357 guy. He reminds me of those free-loving hippies in the 70s who were all about free love.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 1

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@raven- sorry. just to clarify. yes i do cuddle with my friends, kiss them, hug them, and i have terms of endearment for each one of them. i must admit that i dont cuddle or kiss my male friends though, but we do the handshake/hug thing and we all have nicknames for each other. pop, bigdog, kenfolk etc. the girls have girly names like sugaduga & tt.

arent you friends with anyone you’ve had sex with? or friends with someone you’re attracted to, but decided to just remain friends?
and if you’re still friends would you disown them if you got married or got sexually involved with someone else?

“arent you friends with anyone you’ve had sex with?”

Nope. I have no contact with any sex-ex except one, but he has since faded to acquaintance status–didn’t even get the invite to my wedding or the announcement post-wedding.

” or friends with someone you’re attracted to, but decided to just remain friends?”

Why would I stay friends with a guy I was attracted to? To hold out hope that I would get together with him and dump my hubby? I ain’t trifling.

“and if you’re still friends would you disown them if you got married or got sexually involved with someone else? ”

This question is not applicable to me since I did not remain friends with them.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Mar 4

@raven- i had a good laugh with this 1. lol….i understand how you feel. you and i are just different. my feelings remain the same for people whether i’m married or not. i love everyone the same, whether i’m attracted to them or not. i dont marry someone because im attracted to them, i marry them because they better me emotionally, spiritually, financially etc. etc. Every relationship is different, and i value relationships based on what the person has given me; tangibles/intangibles. a lot of people have been good to me in my life and i could never cast them aside for anything; that would be a slap in the face to someone who has given me so much.
and the whole std thing…Remember polygamy has nothing to do with sex. at some point you had to make the decision to have sex with your husband, right?. what things do you consider before having sex with someone??
if you and your husband went to get tested before you had sex then i applaud you, but most people just use their better judgement and have safe sex (at least the first time). i assume you trust your husband’s better judgement since he had sex with you and vice versa. If you didnt trust your husband to have responsible sex and have sex with people he thought were responsible, then how could you have sex with him the first time?? (unless he was a virgin of course)
if your husband was smart enough to have sex with you, then what makes you think you or him couldnt be smart enough to have sex with someone else? sex is a risk, but it is worth it if you love someone, not just sleeping around.
if a married man falls in love with another woman, what should he do???

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Mar 4

bodyguard12
Male, 35, Philadelphia, PA

in some ways i agree but in some i dont. biblically in no way did a woman decide if her husband could marry another. that would give her authority over a man in that and that goes against the bible (1st Corinthians 11:8 ; 1st Tim 2:12) secondly a man having more than one wife was to speedily bring forth the nation of Israel and that was never done away with. With the knowledge of the Lord any man can have more than one wife if he so chooses.

i’m not Christain….

and even if i were i would agree with polygyny over concubinage anyday. in concubinage the women have no rights. Lots of Orthodox have a recognized wife..but hides another woman and their children from the public. If she’s your woman…why hide her. Hypocrisy.

Btw….polygyny was blessed by god in the OT if you read it, and in the NT Yeshua didn’t ban it…he only regulated.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Mar 4

Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

“You can only analyze it from the eurocentric worldview. If you want to talk African tradition then that’s different.”

No, it’s not. Polygyny is practiced in various of countries in history (i.e. classical China, Africa, India, Classical Greece). What’s common in those countries that allow polygyny to flourish or be accepted? Here’s my observation:

1) Is the Country/Society patriarchal? YES!
2) Are women viewed as slaves (cheap labor), property and have no rights? YES!

And when I say any women agreeing to this arrangement [voluntarily] are backwards, sure enough, you come running in here pointing to traditional African women. You proved my point! Tribal African women were ignorant and backwards! (through no fault of their own. They were brought up that way to be suppressed.)

“In the traditional way, polygyny is not decided by the men. It is/was women traditionally who made the decision. Polygyny ensured that a woman’s lineage was continued when women out number men by
show morenatural selection. If a man has to be responsible for a family…and polygyny is not about patriarchy, or chattel…this is a Huge responsiblity for a man finacially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually(if you want to go there)..trust me from experience…” You’re talking about a society that practiced female genital mutilation! And you tell me women have the power to make decision about whom their husband marry? Yah right! This from a culture that does not permit women to refuse sex because it is viewed as their duty to please their men? You know why girls got their wagina sewed up?–to preserve their virginity and protect their BRIDE PRICE price. So YES, polygyny was very much about partriarchy, slavery (as in cheap labor), and chattel. “and if people are over emphasizing sex instead of letting it be natural..then the form of marriage has no real substance whether it’s monogamy or polygamy.” Since you like to talk African tradition and sex being natural, polygyny was practiced in cultures that also practiced female circumcision/mutilation. If they were so concerned about natural sex, why do this to women?
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And you’re mad b/c?

Polygyny has nothing to do with FGM. That sickness was brought by Islam…Islamic and Arab cultures suppress a woman’s sexuality b/c they fear it. African Muslims who practice that are no different than African American Christians who cheat, and beat their wives.

If a woman is choosing a traditional form of marriage….how is that then chattel and a piece of property? Polygyny was designed…or any other form like Polyandry(women with multiple husbands) to promote healthy human sexual relations.

Which is better when the case of natural selection makes monogamy not possible for everybody..

A.) Lots of single women in a given society go around sleeping with different men to fulfill biological urges..or she could marry into a loving polygynous family where she has equal rights to the husband and the same priveliges. Or she could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different men.
B.)Lots of single men in a given society go around sleeping with different women to fulfill biological urges..or he could marry into a loving polyandrous family where he has equal rights to the wife and the same privliges. Or he could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different women.

since you mentioned mormons…. even ineir community women have rights and are choosing polygyny or not. Islam and Christianty have twisted good meaningul traditions. Or a woman could always be a concubine…where she doesn’t have an ounce of a rights

nobody is asking you to be a polygamist…so why the hostility? Even in the US almost 60,000 people live in polygamous relationships whether legal or not. One thing pple have to face is that even in America family forms are changing whether the masses agree, participate, despise or not.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 5

Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

@raven- i had a good laugh with this 1. lol….i understand how you feel. you and i are just different. my feelings remain the same for people whether i’m married or not. i love everyone the same, whether i’m attracted to them or not. i dont marry someone because im attracted to them, i marry them because they better me emotionally, spiritually, financially etc. etc. Every relationship is different, and i value relationships based on what the person has given me; tangibles/intangibles. a lot of people have been good to me in my life and i could never cast them aside for anything; that would be a slap in the face to someone who has given me so much.
and the whole std thing…Remember polygamy has nothing to do with sex. at some point you had to make the decision to have sex with your husband, right?. what things do you consider before having sex with someone??
if you and your husband went to get tested before you had sex then i applaud you, but most people just use their better judgeme
show morent and have safe sex (at least the first time). i assume you trust your husband’s better judgement since he had sex with you and vice versa. If you didnt trust your husband to have responsible sex and have sex with people he thought were responsible, then how could you have sex with him the first time?? (unless he was a virgin of course) if your husband was smart enough to have sex with you, then what makes you think you or him couldnt be smart enough to have sex with someone else? sex is a risk, but it is worth it if you love someone, not just sleeping around. if a married man falls in love with another woman, what should he do???
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“my feelings remain the same for people whether i’m married or not. i love everyone the same, whether i’m attracted to them or not. i dont marry someone because im attracted to them, i marry them because they better me emotionally, spiritually, financially etc. etc. Every relationship is different, and i value relationships based on what the person has given me; tangibles/intangibles. a lot of people have been good to me in my life and i could never cast them aside for anything; that would be a slap in the face to someone who has given me so much.”

I don’t see how your fluffy fuzzy feelings contribute to the pro-polygamy debate. In fact, you relied on emotional appeal to support your pro-polygamy position, and made baseless unprovable statements like “women are much happier in polygamous relationships”. But that’s your opinion and your experience, so be it.

“and the whole std thing…Remember polygamy has nothing to do with sex.

What?

“at some point you had to make the decision to have sex with your husband, right?. what things do you consider before having sex with someone??
if you and your husband went to get tested before you had sex then i applaud you, but most people just use their better judgement and have safe sex (at least the first time). i assume you trust your husband’s better judgement since he had sex with you and vice versa. If you didnt trust your husband to have responsible sex and have sex with people he thought were responsible, then how could you have sex with him the first time?? (unless he was a virgin of course)
if your husband was smart enough to have sex with you, then what makes you think you or him couldnt be smart enough to have sex with someone else? sex is a risk, but it is worth it if you love someone, not just sleeping around. ”

What is this nonsense? You sound so naive. I required my husband to get his medical checked to ensure he didn’t contracted anything. I may trust him to responsible, but I don’t trust the ladies he was with to be responsible.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 5

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

i’m not Christain….

and even if i were i would agree with polygyny over concubinage anyday. in concubinage the women have no rights. Lots of Orthodox have a recognized wife..but hides another woman and their children from the public. If she’s your woman…why hide her. Hypocrisy.

Btw….polygyny was blessed by god in the OT if you read it, and in the NT Yeshua didn’t ban it…he only regulated.

Secular law does not recognize polygamy, so any rights as a wife (except the official one) are not recognized. I don’t know why you keep insisting they do when it’s not true.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 5

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

And you’re mad b/c?

Polygyny has nothing to do with FGM. That sickness was brought by Islam…Islamic and Arab cultures suppress a woman’s sexuality b/c they fear it. African Muslims who practice that are no different than African American Christians who cheat, and beat their wives.

If a woman is choosing a traditional form of marriage….how is that then chattel and a piece of property? Polygyny was designed…or any other form like Polyandry(women with multiple husbands) to promote healthy human sexual relations.

Which is better when the case of natural selection makes monogamy not possible for everybody..

A.) Lots of single women in a given society go around sleeping with different men to fulfill biological urges..or she could marry into a loving polygynous family where she has equal rights to the husband and the same priveliges. Or she could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different men.
B.)Lots of single men in a given society go around sl
show moreeeping with different women to fulfill biological urges..or he could marry into a loving polyandrous family where he has equal rights to the wife and the same privliges. Or he could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different women. since you mentioned mormons…. even ineir community women have rights and are choosing polygyny or not. Islam and Christianty have twisted good meaningul traditions. Or a woman could always be a concubine…where she doesn’t have an ounce of a rights nobody is asking you to be a polygamist…so why the hostility? Even in the US almost 60,000 people live in polygamous relationships whether legal or not. One thing pple have to face is that even in America family forms are changing whether the masses agree, participate, despise or not.
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“Polygyny has nothing to do with FGM. That sickness was brought by Islam…Islamic and Arab cultures suppress a woman’s sexuality b/c they fear it. African Muslims who practice that are no different than African American Christians who cheat, and beat their wives.”

My highlighting polygyny being practiced in cultures who also practice FGM is to prove that it is practiced in countries/culture that are patriarchal. Patriarchal countries/cultures suppress their women and limits their freedom/rights. Therefore, it supports my arguments that polygyny is a family structure that degrades women. Hence my example of the Mormon polygamy and your example of Islamic polygyny.

“If a woman is choosing a traditional form of marriage….how is that then chattel and a piece of property? Polygyny was designed…or any other form like Polyandry(women with multiple husbands) to promote healthy human sexual relations.”

This “traditional” form of marriage is currently not legal and when it was practiced in history, it was during times where women were regarded as property, not a person with rights. If the woman chooses to enter into an informal undercover polygamy relationship in our modern time, fine. But her rights as a legal spouse is not recognized unless she is the legal spouse.

As for healthy sexual relations, that’s a piece of shyt you just pulled out of your azz. Where’s your authoritive source that says polygyny was created to promote healthy human sexual relations?! And didn’t Texas123 just say it wasn’t about sex? You guys need to get your information consistent with each other. If it’s just about healthy sexual relations, what about other alternatives like concubinage or prostitution?–don’t they foster healthy sexual relationships too? Your baseless statement also implies that monogamous sexual relations are not healthy.

“A.) Lots of single women in a given society go around sleeping with different men to fulfill biological urges..or she could marry into a loving polygynous family where she has equal rights to the husband and the same priveliges. Or she could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different men.”

OR she could marry into a loving monogamous relationship that is recognized under the law, where she has spousal rights equal to the husband. OR she can enter into common-law marriage, also recognized by some states, where she has spousal rights equal to the husband. OR she can choose to remain single and have one or two committed friends with benefits. Her catching HIV/AIDS have nothing to do with her choice of marriage structure or multi-relationships–she can catch HIV/AIDs from her husband.

“B.)Lots of single men in a given society go around sleeping with different women to fulfill biological urges..or he could marry into a loving polyandrous family where he has equal rights to the wife and the same privliges. Or he could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different women.”

See my answer above, but vice versa.

“since you mentioned mormons…. even ineir community women have rights and are choosing polygyny or not. Islam and Christianty have twisted good meaningul traditions. Or a woman could always be a concubine…where she doesn’t have an ounce of a rights ”

Another bullshyt you pulled out of your azz. That is simply not true. Who cares what ‘rights’ these Mormon wives supposedly have in their little community–these spousal rights are NOT recognized under the US legislation because the law does not recognize their polygamy relationships. Parts of the US even criminalize their polygamous lifestyle, meaning when enforced, they could go to jail. Like Warren Jeff. Their little community ‘laws’ are not above the US law.

“nobody is asking you to be a polygamist…so why the hostility? Even in the US almost 60,000 people live in polygamous relationships whether legal or not. One thing pple have to face is that even in America family forms are changing whether the masses agree, participate, despise or not.”

Just because I called you on your bullshyt, does not mean I am hostile. People can choose to live their lives however they see fit, so long as it is not against the law. But I still hold the opinion that polygamy is degrading to women, inefficient, illegal, expensive, etc, etc, and women who agree to it are backwards. I’ve backed up my arguments. Have you?

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 5

the link between IGNORANCE, fgm , polygnyn and the ‘trading’ of women:

http://iwraw.igc.org/publications/countries/burkina.htm :

“Traditional practices of the Mossi, Burkina Faso’s largest ethnic group, perpetuate the inferiority of women in Burkinabe society. These traditions include pogsyure, an intricate series of practices in which the male side of families and lineages negotiate the marriage, exchange and circulation of women. Referred to as the “capitalization of women as a means of power, the practice of pogsyure has been compared to the slave trade, in which women, who hold the power to reproduce, are managed like a scarce resource. [15]

Polygyny also continues to be practiced. According to the 1985 census, 20 percent of married men had two wives, seven percent had three wives, and three percent had four or more. A reflection of economic means, in which “the accumulation of women or servants. . . is an accumulation of forces of production,” instances of polygamy become more frequent as men age and accumulate wealth. Polygyny is more widespread in rural than urban areas. [16]

Female genital mutilation (FGM) is practiced by most ethnic groups in Burkina Faso. The most often cited reasons for performing the operation is preventing sexual promiscuity, and the belief that if a child touches his or her mother’s clitoris upon being born, he or she will soon die (also see under Article 12). [17] ”

so you can see…get them young (average age of a bride is 17, average age for the groom 27), get them MUTILATED, PAY for them, the practice of polygyny and FGM.

its a link.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 5

yet another link between polygyny, FGM, ignorance and the second class status of women that live in this idiocy:

http://www.popcouncil.org/pdfs/briefingsheets/MALI.pdf

“Mali has one of the most severe crises of child marriage in the
world today. The legal age of marriage is 18 for girls and 21 for boys, but
girls may be married as early as age 15 with parental consent For civil
marriages, the law dictates that prospective spouses discuss and agree
on whether their union will be polygynous or monogamous; however, a
woman’s say in the matter is minimal given her limited options, and
most women have only a religious marriage performed. Furthermore,
most women in this overwhelmingly Muslim country accept polygyny as
a practice sanctioned by Islam, which permits a man to have up to four
wives. The payment of bride price is recognized by law,18 promoting the
perception that wives are the property of husbands.

In addition, female
genital circumcision affects nearly all Malian women (92 percent), with
61 percent of circumcisions occurring before age 5.19
A high prevalence of child marriage exists
Nationwide, 25 percent of girls were married by age 15, and nearly
two-thirds of girls were married by age 18.20
Child marriage is extremely prevalent in some regions; in Kayes,
39 percent of girls were married by age 15, and 83 percent were
married by age 18.

Although the practice of polygyny is decreasing in Mali, 22 percent
of married girls aged 15–19 are in polygynous marriages.22
Married girls receive little or no schooling
Eighty-six percent of married girls have received no education, compared
to 62 percent of unmarried girls.23
More than nine out of ten married girls aged 15–19 cannot read
at all.

Large spousal age differences are common and may
limit married girls’ autonomy and decisionmaking ability
The younger a bride is, the greater the age difference between her
and her spouse. In Mali, the mean age difference between spouses is
12.7 years if the wife marries before age 15 compared to 9.9 years if
the wife marries at or after age 20.

Spousal age differences are even greater when the girl is a second
or third wife. In polygynous marriages, the mean age difference
between spouses is 15.1 years, compared to 9.9 years in monogamous
marriages.

First births have elevated risks; the youngest first-time
mothers and their children are especially vulnerable to poor
health outcomes.

A weak health infrastructure makes it difficult for mothers to receive
adequate care. In rural areas, where the majority of Malians live,
85 percent of girls and women live at least 30 kilometers away from
over”

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Mar 5

Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

“Polygyny has nothing to do with FGM. That sickness was brought by Islam…Islamic and Arab cultures suppress a woman’s sexuality b/c they fear it. African Muslims who practice that are no different than African American Christians who cheat, and beat their wives.”

My highlighting polygyny being practiced in cultures who also practice FGM is to prove that it is practiced in countries/culture that are patriarchal. Patriarchal countries/cultures suppress their women and limits their freedom/rights. Therefore, it supports my arguments that polygyny is a family structure that degrades women. Hence my example of the Mormon polygamy and your example of Islamic polygyny.

“If a woman is choosing a traditional form of marriage….how is that then chattel and a piece of property? Polygyny was designed…or any other form like Polyandry(women with multiple husbands) to promote healthy human sexual relations.”

This “traditional” form of marriage is currently not legal and when i
show moret was practiced in history, it was during times where women were regarded as property, not a person with rights. If the woman chooses to enter into an informal undercover polygamy relationship in our modern time, fine. But her rights as a legal spouse is not recognized unless she is the legal spouse. As for healthy sexual relations, that’s a piece of shyt you just pulled out of your azz. Where’s your authoritive source that says polygyny was created to promote healthy human sexual relations?! And didn’t Texas123 just say it wasn’t about sex? You guys need to get your information consistent with each other. If it’s just about healthy sexual relations, what about other alternatives like concubinage or prostitution?–don’t they foster healthy sexual relationships too? Your baseless statement also implies that monogamous sexual relations are not healthy. “A.) Lots of single women in a given society go around sleeping with different men to fulfill biological urges..or she could marry into a loving polygynous family where she has equal rights to the husband and the same priveliges. Or she could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different men.” OR she could marry into a loving monogamous relationship that is recognized under the law, where she has spousal rights equal to the husband. OR she can enter into common-law marriage, also recognized by some states, where she has spousal rights equal to the husband. OR she can choose to remain single and have one or two committed friends with benefits. Her catching HIV/AIDS have nothing to do with her choice of marriage structure or multi-relationships–she can catch HIV/AIDs from her husband. “B.)Lots of single men in a given society go around sleeping with different women to fulfill biological urges..or he could marry into a loving polyandrous family where he has equal rights to the wife and the same privliges. Or he could remain single and end up with HIV/AIDS for having slept around with different women.” See my answer above, but vice versa. “since you mentioned mormons…. even ineir community women have rights and are choosing polygyny or not. Islam and Christianty have twisted good meaningul traditions. Or a woman could always be a concubine…where she doesn’t have an ounce of a rights ” Another bullshyt you pulled out of your azz. That is simply not true. Who cares what ‘rights’ these Mormon wives supposedly have in their little community–these spousal rights are NOT recognized under the US legislation because the law does not recognize their polygamy relationships. Parts of the US even criminalize their polygamous lifestyle, meaning when enforced, they could go to jail. Like Warren Jeff. Their little community ‘laws’ are not above the US law. “nobody is asking you to be a polygamist…so why the hostility? Even in the US almost 60,000 people live in polygamous relationships whether legal or not. One thing pple have to face is that even in America family forms are changing whether the masses agree, participate, despise or not.” Just because I called you on your bullshyt, does not mean I am hostile. People can choose to live their lives however they see fit, so long as it is not against the law. But I still hold the opinion that polygamy is degrading to women, inefficient, illegal, expensive, etc, etc, and women who agree to it are backwards. I’ve backed up my arguments. Have you?
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what i still can’t figure out about you is that why you think, feel etc…that someone will be more apt to agree/listen to you by being hostile and profanity…it’s not even that serious,lol.

you can pull up info about ‘western’ idealogy to prove your opinion…but it won’t change what’s been a part of African traditions since ancient times.

You want sources…fine i’ll give you sources..

1. Spiritual Guide to an Afrocentric Union…RaUn Nefer Amen

2. Polygamy: A Furturistic Family Arrangement for African Americans…Joseph Scott

3. Africana Wonamism:Reclaiming Ourselves…Clenora Hudson Weems

4. Delores P. Aldridge…has good works out about positive family forms other than monogamy.

FGM…has no place in African traditions. It was Arab culture that brought that. It’s a sick practice to suppress women’s sexuality that has nothing to do with polygyny. Monogamy and polygamy are forms of marriages that i respect and regard and neither of them is better or less than the other.

You said i degrading sex in monogamy. Prove it? I said polygyny was/is a traditional way in solving an age old problem. when men outnumber women in a society b/c of war and natural selection. It is for practicality a way that each woman in a given society could have the rights to marriage, healthy sexual relationships, and child bearing to carrry on her name.

Christainity in the OTpermits men to have more than one wife. The NT regulates it but does not ban it. It has only been in recent history that christianity changed and rearranged books of the Bible and more importantly that the christain church has criminalized it. Ever heard of the Confrence of Nicea?

Islam..however under the Q’uran permits a man to have no more than four wives…and the only reason is b/c of war and so that the children of widows will not be orphans. That’s the only way in Islam that’s valid. Again Arabs mix theirculture with their religion and create a mess in which the family structure is unjust to women. Again that’s Arab culture not African.

It’s not comparable to say the least nor of whether it’s legal or should be. People are doing in the U.S. whether Ravenesque is pleased with it, despised by, thinks it should be illegal, hostile about it or what have you. Any questions for Texas..should take up with him not me.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 5

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

what i still can’t figure out about you is that why you think, feel etc…that someone will be more apt to agree/listen to you by being hostile and profanity…it’s not even that serious,lol.

you can pull up info about ‘western’ idealogy to prove your opinion…but it won’t change what’s been a part of African traditions since ancient times.

You want sources…fine i’ll give you sources..

1. Spiritual Guide to an Afrocentric Union…RaUn Nefer Amen

2. Polygamy: A Furturistic Family Arrangement for African Americans…Joseph Scott

3. Africana Wonamism:Reclaiming Ourselves…Clenora Hudson Weems

4. Delores P. Aldridge…has good works out about positive family forms other than monogamy.

FGM…has no place in African traditions. It was Arab culture that brought that. It’s a sick practice to suppress women’s sexuality that has nothing to do with polygyny. Monogamy and polygamy are forms of marriages that i respect and regard and neither of them is better or less than the other.

Yo
show moreu said i degrading sex in monogamy. Prove it? I said polygyny was/is a traditional way in solving an age old problem. when men outnumber women in a society b/c of war and natural selection. It is for practicality a way that each woman in a given society could have the rights to marriage, healthy sexual relationships, and child bearing to carrry on her name. Christainity in the OTpermits men to have more than one wife. The NT regulates it but does not ban it. It has only been in recent history that christianity changed and rearranged books of the Bible and more importantly that the christain church has criminalized it. Ever heard of the Confrence of Nicea? Islam..however under the Q’uran permits a man to have no more than four wives…and the only reason is b/c of war and so that the children of widows will not be orphans. That’s the only way in Islam that’s valid. Again Arabs mix theirculture with their religion and create a mess in which the family structure is unjust to women. Again that’s Arab culture not African. It’s not comparable to say the least nor of whether it’s legal or should be. People are doing in the U.S. whether Ravenesque is pleased with it, despised by, thinks it should be illegal, hostile about it or what have you. Any questions for Texas..should take up with him not me.
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“you can pull up info about ‘western’ idealogy to prove your opinion…but it won’t change what’s been a part of African traditions since ancient times.”

1) so what it’s been ‘a part of SOME african traditions since ancient times’. does it make it ‘right’? the enslavement of conquered people and selling them to other ‘black’ african tribes and tribes outside of ‘black africa’ has been part of many (most conquerers in fact) ‘african’ traditions since ancient times, too. i’ll bet those that got sold didnt think much of the practice.

2) the whole ‘that’s a western ideology’ is a copout for ‘ i can only argue with emotion, not fact’. polygyny/polygamy/et. al., where one man has many wives is good ONLY when there are few men, PLENTY of women and you’re going on a binge to expand the family, village, tribe and country. when this is not the case, it’s useless and it only relegates women to second class status.

“You want sources…fine i’ll give you sources..

1. Spiritual Guide to an Afrocentric Union…RaUn Nefer Amen

2. Polygamy: A Furturistic Family Arrangement for African Americans…Joseph Scott

3. Africana Wonamism:Reclaiming Ourselves…Clenora Hudson Weems

4. Delores P. Aldridge…has good works out about positive family forms other than monogamy.”

what are the credentials of these people, beyond being black and proponents of polygyny? all they’re doing is giving opinion. and STILL its failed to sway even a significant MINORITY of black folks…the vast majority of black people and people in general STILL see monogamy as the way to go, and as such, polygyny is ILLEGAL and always will be. there’s NO PLACE for polygyny in a MODERN, WESTERN, CAPITALIST WORLD.

“FGM…has no place in African traditions. It was Arab culture that brought that. It’s a sick practice to suppress women’s sexuality that has nothing to do with polygyny.”

‘arab’ is african. look at arabs…from osama bin laden to the house of saud. they are , at best, lighter skinned black folks. black folks were on the arab subcontinent well before assyrians and persians came in. their genes were so evident, that even when you go back 1500 b.c. plus, during a time when conquest/trade/mixing of the non black assyrians and the blacks on the arab subcontinent occurred, they kept a good deal of their blackness.

and yes, there’s a link ( i gave TWO sources) between what OBVIOUSLY BLACK AFRICANS CURRENTLY PRACTICE (and have for HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of years)- FGM- and african tradition AND polygyny.

” Monogamy and polygamy are forms of marriages that i respect and regard and neither of them is better or less than the other. ”

actually, monogamy is BETTER in a MODERN, WESTERN SOCIETY (the one african americans live in) than polygyny. there are not vastly more women than men…our country is 300 million plus strong, thus no need to increase the numbers. in a modern capitalistic society, multiple wives means multiple children, and most men can’t afford to support all those kids and wives. a working woman with a real job and career is SIMPLY NOT LIKELY TO KNOWINGLY SHARE HER MAN. there’s no benefit socially, sexually, financially for a woman that has a career. none. nada.

“You said i degrading sex in monogamy. Prove it? I said polygyny was/is a traditional way in solving an age old problem. ”

just because you claim something is ‘traditional’ doesn’t mean it’s inherently ‘right’ or ‘correct’. again, ‘slavery’ was traditional all over the world, and all over the african continent. those that were enslaved would argue that this ‘tradition’ is barbaric and unfair.

“when men outnumber women in a society b/c of war and natural selection. It is for practicality a way that each woman in a given society could have the rights to marriage, healthy sexual relationships, and child bearing to carrry on her name. ”

i think you meant when women outnumber men…women don’t outnumber men substantially in THIS COUNTRY to make this a real issue. women who work and have a career in this country simply don’t want to share a man, particularly when its not necessary.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 5

chrystal pistol…part 2:

“Christainity in the OTpermits men to have more than one wife.”

doesnt make it right. it also talked about folks willing to kill their kids to sacrifice to God. that aint right, either.

” The NT regulates it but does not ban it. ”

the bible, koran and any other ‘holy book’ is just that…stuff written BY MAN. when a people are oppressed, and need to increase their numbers quickly, it makes sense to practice polygyny. few men, many women can create a good number of ‘your people’ in a relatively short time (say, two generations). once you have the people you need, it becomes abusive. as i showed in my links and quotes, the age difference in polygynous societie between the man and the woman is greater than in monogamous relationships. and when you get past the first wife, the girl gets even YOUNGER.

note on those nutcase utah areas, where folks practice this stuff illegally. the older men have the money and resources and the younger men don’t. these younger men are driven from the society, and thus the ONLY option for these young girls is, of course, the older men. older men and young girls creates an environment of POWER that leads to ABUSE of such power.

” the It has only been in recent history that christianity changed and rearranged books of the Bible and more importantly that the christain church has criminalized it. Ever heard of the Confrence of Nicea?”

dont matter, since the bible, the koran and all other holy books are STILL written by men…men who are affected by THEIR CULTURAL BIASES.

“Islam..however under the Q’uran permits a man to have no more than four wives…and the only reason is b/c of war and so that the children of widows will not be orphans. That’s the only way in Islam that’s valid. Again Arabs mix theirculture with their religion and create a mess in which the family structure is unjust to women. Again that’s Arab culture not African.”

1) arabs have and still are mostly a ‘black’ or ‘black mix’ people.
2) the koran was written by MEN who were influenced by their cultural biases
3) even in YOUR example here, its only in times of war and to make sure the children won’t be be orphans. in the united states and most countries that aren’t backwards, there’s a safety net called ‘welfare’ that protects the children. also, women can GET OUT AND WORK in these societies.

thus, polygyny is useless in a modern setting.

“It’s not comparable to say the least nor of whether it’s legal or should be. ”

yes it is. its illegal, and can’t be practiced.

“People are doing in the U.S. whether Ravenesque is pleased with it, despised by, thinks it should be illegal, hostile about it or what have you. ”

they may ‘practice’ it, but not out in the open, cuz ITS ILLEGAL. if they’re shacking up, not legally married, good for them. the VAST MAJORITY OF FOLKS simply wont do it, because THE VAST MAJORITY OF WOMEN wouldnt put up with it.

polygyny/polygamy is a useless practice in the MODERN CAPITALISTIC WORLD that can only lead to abuse of the women.

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Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

Posted Mar 6

smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

chrystal pistol…part 2:

“Christainity in the OTpermits men to have more than one wife.”

doesnt make it right. it also talked about folks willing to kill their kids to sacrifice to God. that aint right, either.

” The NT regulates it but does not ban it. ”

the bible, koran and any other ‘holy book’ is just that…stuff written BY MAN. when a people are oppressed, and need to increase their numbers quickly, it makes sense to practice polygyny. few men, many women can create a good number of ‘your people’ in a relatively short time (say, two generations). once you have the people you need, it becomes abusive. as i showed in my links and quotes, the age difference in polygynous societie between the man and the woman is greater than in monogamous relationships. and when you get past the first wife, the girl gets even YOUNGER.

note on those nutcase utah areas, where folks practice this stuff illegally. the older men have the money and resources and the younger men don’t. these
show more younger men are driven from the society, and thus the ONLY option for these young girls is, of course, the older men. older men and young girls creates an environment of POWER that leads to ABUSE of such power. ” the It has only been in recent history that christianity changed and rearranged books of the Bible and more importantly that the christain church has criminalized it. Ever heard of the Confrence of Nicea?” dont matter, since the bible, the koran and all other holy books are STILL written by men…men who are affected by THEIR CULTURAL BIASES. “Islam..however under the Q’uran permits a man to have no more than four wives…and the only reason is b/c of war and so that the children of widows will not be orphans. That’s the only way in Islam that’s valid. Again Arabs mix theirculture with their religion and create a mess in which the family structure is unjust to women. Again that’s Arab culture not African.” 1) arabs have and still are mostly a ‘black’ or ‘black mix’ people. 2) the koran was written by MEN who were influenced by their cultural biases 3) even in YOUR example here, its only in times of war and to make sure the children won’t be be orphans. in the united states and most countries that aren’t backwards, there’s a safety net called ‘welfare’ that protects the children. also, women can GET OUT AND WORK in these societies. thus, polygyny is useless in a modern setting. “It’s not comparable to say the least nor of whether it’s legal or should be. ” yes it is. its illegal, and can’t be practiced. “People are doing in the U.S. whether Ravenesque is pleased with it, despised by, thinks it should be illegal, hostile about it or what have you. ” they may ‘practice’ it, but not out in the open, cuz ITS ILLEGAL. if they’re shacking up, not legally married, good for them. the VAST MAJORITY OF FOLKS simply wont do it, because THE VAST MAJORITY OF WOMEN wouldnt put up with it. polygyny/polygamy is a useless practice in the MODERN CAPITALISTIC WORLD that can only lead to abuse of the women.
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ok but where did i say you or anyone else in the U.S. has to like it, tolerate it, or what have you?

i was simply discussing….

nevermind.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 6

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

ok but where did i say you or anyone else in the U.S. has to like it, tolerate it, or what have you?

i was simply discussing….

nevermind.

“ok but where did i say you or anyone else in the U.S. has to like it, tolerate it, or what have you?”

i don’t think i said that you were forcing polygyny on to others. you ARE an advocate, and you listed books by other advocates of polygyny, as an ‘alternative form of relationship for african americans’, where you and they claimed it was ‘african tradition’.

i’m simply saying:

1) who cares if its an ‘african tradition’ or not; it simply has no place in american (or western) capitialist socities;

2) the vast majority of black and non black people in this country find the idea wrong headed, they’re not going to change, and the laws about polygyny won’t change.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 7

smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

yet another link between polygyny, FGM, ignorance and the second class status of women that live in this idiocy:

http://www.popcouncil.org/pdfs/briefingsheets/MALI.pdf

“Mali has one of the most severe crises of child marriage in the
world today. The legal age of marriage is 18 for girls and 21 for boys, but
girls may be married as early as age 15 with parental consent For civil
marriages, the law dictates that prospective spouses discuss and agree
on whether their union will be polygynous or monogamous; however, a
woman’s say in the matter is minimal given her limited options, and
most women have only a religious marriage performed. Furthermore,
most women in this overwhelmingly Muslim country accept polygyny as
a practice sanctioned by Islam, which permits a man to have up to four
wives. The payment of bride price is recognized by law,18 promoting the
perception that wives are the property of husbands.

In addition, female
genital circumcision affects nearly all Malian women (92
show more percent), with 61 percent of circumcisions occurring before age 5.19 A high prevalence of child marriage exists Nationwide, 25 percent of girls were married by age 15, and nearly two-thirds of girls were married by age 18.20 Child marriage is extremely prevalent in some regions; in Kayes, 39 percent of girls were married by age 15, and 83 percent were married by age 18. Although the practice of polygyny is decreasing in Mali, 22 percent of married girls aged 15–19 are in polygynous marriages.22 Married girls receive little or no schooling Eighty-six percent of married girls have received no education, compared to 62 percent of unmarried girls.23 More than nine out of ten married girls aged 15–19 cannot read at all. Large spousal age differences are common and may limit married girls’ autonomy and decisionmaking ability The younger a bride is, the greater the age difference between her and her spouse. In Mali, the mean age difference between spouses is 12.7 years if the wife marries before age 15 compared to 9.9 years if the wife marries at or after age 20. Spousal age differences are even greater when the girl is a second or third wife. In polygynous marriages, the mean age difference between spouses is 15.1 years, compared to 9.9 years in monogamous marriages. First births have elevated risks; the youngest first-time mothers and their children are especially vulnerable to poor health outcomes. A weak health infrastructure makes it difficult for mothers to receive adequate care. In rural areas, where the majority of Malians live, 85 percent of girls and women live at least 30 kilometers away from over”
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Thank you, Smack, for providing the research that supports my position that Polygyny degrades women by:

1) reinforcing the patriarchal structure of this marriage to benefit the man
2) treating woman as property, servants/slaves, and chattel

Furthermore, it proves my statement that women subjected to this arrangement or voluntarily agreeing to this arrange are backwards:

1) Women were illiterate
2) Women were ignorant and believed in superstitions

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 7

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

what i still can’t figure out about you is that why you think, feel etc…that someone will be more apt to agree/listen to you by being hostile and profanity…it’s not even that serious,lol.

you can pull up info about ‘western’ idealogy to prove your opinion…but it won’t change what’s been a part of African traditions since ancient times.

You want sources…fine i’ll give you sources..

1. Spiritual Guide to an Afrocentric Union…RaUn Nefer Amen

2. Polygamy: A Furturistic Family Arrangement for African Americans…Joseph Scott

3. Africana Wonamism:Reclaiming Ourselves…Clenora Hudson Weems

4. Delores P. Aldridge…has good works out about positive family forms other than monogamy.

FGM…has no place in African traditions. It was Arab culture that brought that. It’s a sick practice to suppress women’s sexuality that has nothing to do with polygyny. Monogamy and polygamy are forms of marriages that i respect and regard and neither of them is better or less than the other.

Yo
show moreu said i degrading sex in monogamy. Prove it? I said polygyny was/is a traditional way in solving an age old problem. when men outnumber women in a society b/c of war and natural selection. It is for practicality a way that each woman in a given society could have the rights to marriage, healthy sexual relationships, and child bearing to carrry on her name. Christainity in the OTpermits men to have more than one wife. The NT regulates it but does not ban it. It has only been in recent history that christianity changed and rearranged books of the Bible and more importantly that the christain church has criminalized it. Ever heard of the Confrence of Nicea? Islam..however under the Q’uran permits a man to have no more than four wives…and the only reason is b/c of war and so that the children of widows will not be orphans. That’s the only way in Islam that’s valid. Again Arabs mix theirculture with their religion and create a mess in which the family structure is unjust to women. Again that’s Arab culture not African. It’s not comparable to say the least nor of whether it’s legal or should be. People are doing in the U.S. whether Ravenesque is pleased with it, despised by, thinks it should be illegal, hostile about it or what have you. Any questions for Texas..should take up with him not me.
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I was going to respond to your post, but I see Smack beat me to it.

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Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Posted Mar 7

Smack, you argue like an expensive lawyer. I’m impressed.

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Eolufemi
Male, 27, Lansing, MI

Posted Mar 8

Crystal_Pistol1
Female, 23, Ethiopia

what i still can’t figure out about you is that why you think, feel etc…that someone will be more apt to agree/listen to you by being hostile and profanity…it’s not even that serious,lol.

you can pull up info about ‘western’ idealogy to prove your opinion…but it won’t change what’s been a part of African traditions since ancient times.

You want sources…fine i’ll give you sources..

1. Spiritual Guide to an Afrocentric Union…RaUn Nefer Amen

2. Polygamy: A Furturistic Family Arrangement for African Americans…Joseph Scott

3. Africana Wonamism:Reclaiming Ourselves…Clenora Hudson Weems

4. Delores P. Aldridge…has good works out about positive family forms other than monogamy.

FGM…has no place in African traditions. It was Arab culture that brought that. It’s a sick practice to suppress women’s sexuality that has nothing to do with polygyny. Monogamy and polygamy are forms of marriages that i respect and regard and neither of them is better or less than the other.

Yo
show moreu said i degrading sex in monogamy. Prove it? I said polygyny was/is a traditional way in solving an age old problem. when men outnumber women in a society b/c of war and natural selection. It is for practicality a way that each woman in a given society could have the rights to marriage, healthy sexual relationships, and child bearing to carrry on her name. Christainity in the OTpermits men to have more than one wife. The NT regulates it but does not ban it. It has only been in recent history that christianity changed and rearranged books of the Bible and more importantly that the christain church has criminalized it. Ever heard of the Confrence of Nicea? Islam..however under the Q’uran permits a man to have no more than four wives…and the only reason is b/c of war and so that the children of widows will not be orphans. That’s the only way in Islam that’s valid. Again Arabs mix theirculture with their religion and create a mess in which the family structure is unjust to women. Again that’s Arab culture not African. It’s not comparable to say the least nor of whether it’s legal or should be. People are doing in the U.S. whether Ravenesque is pleased with it, despised by, thinks it should be illegal, hostile about it or what have you. Any questions for Texas..should take up with him not me.
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Great posts.

I think they are ignoring the point you’ve made, which is the general benefit of a polygamous society. If women outnumber the men, monogamy is impossible and man-sharing is an inevitable by-product. Yet those women don’t get the benefit of protection under law or any real recognized obligation of the men to them.

I think the black community in particular would definitely benefit from getting rid of the stigmas attached to polygamy. There are 87 black men for every 100 black women. Only 25% or so of black women are childless by the time they are 30. While nearly 50% of black men are childless by that time. Clearly a lot of man sharing is already going on in our society. And the vast majority of these women have no claim on the men that father their children.

Monogamy has been a failure as a marital arrangement in our communities. Perhaps its time to give another idea a shot. Besides if an individual doesn’t want to be in that type of marriage they don’t have too. Personal choice should be respected and the government is being overly intrusive dictating to folks what they can do in their personal lives.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 8

Eolufemi
Male, 27, Lansing, MI

Great posts.

I think they are ignoring the point you’ve made, which is the general benefit of a polygamous society. If women outnumber the men, monogamy is impossible and man-sharing is an inevitable by-product. Yet those women don’t get the benefit of protection under law or any real recognized obligation of the men to them.

I think the black community in particular would definitely benefit from getting rid of the stigmas attached to polygamy. There are 87 black men for every 100 black women. Only 25% or so of black women are childless by the time they are 30. While nearly 50% of black men are childless by that time. Clearly a lot of man sharing is already going on in our society. And the vast majority of these women have no claim on the men that father their children.

Monogamy has been a failure as a marital arrangement in our communities. Perhaps its time to give another idea a shot. Besides if an individual doesn’t want to be in that type of marriage they don’t have too. Persona
show morel choice should be respected and the government is being overly intrusive dictating to folks what they can do in their personal lives.
show less

“I think they are ignoring the point you’ve made, which is the general benefit of a polygamous society. If women outnumber the men, monogamy is impossible and man-sharing is an inevitable by-product. Yet those women don’t get the benefit of protection under law or any real recognized obligation of the men to them.”

1) when i was in sales, we learned you can’t ‘sell’ something to anybody…you have to address a REAL NEED (‘real need’ according to THEM, not you). as such, no matter how many virtues and benefits polygamous societies allegedly have, if the people you’re talking to don’t see these benefits, that means there’s no benefit in it for them.

2) women outnumber men, but that’s the way its always been. they don’t outnumber men in THIS SOCIETY in numbers that necessitate polygamy. so, yes , there will be women that don’t have men, but that means they simply can’t compete with women who DO have men. conversely, though women outnumber men, there are men that can’t attract/keep women, and that’s because these men can’t compete with other men.

“I think the black community in particular would definitely benefit from getting rid of the stigmas attached to polygamy. There are 87 black men for every 100 black women. Only 25% or so of black women are childless by the time they are 30. While nearly 50% of black men are childless by that time. Clearly a lot of man sharing is already going on in our society. And the vast majority of these women have no claim on the men that father their children.”

i’d like to know where you got that 25% number from (cuz i can use that and its source later on to argue why a man without kids, who’s educated, fit, etc., really has no need for a woman with kids).

beyond that, yes, man sharing is going on…but its UNWANTED man sharing. and its bad decision making on the part of women to HAVE A CHILD WITH A MAN THEY’RE NOT MARRIED TO. if the women KNEW (or admitted to themselves) that they were sharing a man with another woman/other women, they’d not do it. with the spread of STDs in the black community, the men that are being shared are not the prime men…the women simply need to keep their legs closed, or used protection, when dealing with these men.

and the women that accept this idiocy of getting knocked up, repeatedly, by men they’re not married to are typically not prime women. an educated, career woman doesnt have as much time to crank out kid after kid (educated and affluent women tend to have fewer kids anyway) without benefit of marriage. and educated/affluent women who are pretty, initially childless, fit and nice will NEVER BE LIKELY, IN THIS SOCIETY, TO SHARE A MAN.

“Monogamy has been a failure as a marital arrangement in our communities. ”

in the poorer/less educated elements of our society. poor and ignorant have more children worldwide…how can our poor be any different. however, i’m neither poor nor ignorant, never grew up in the ghetto/slums, and likely will never life there. the poor community is no more MY ‘community’ than appalachia is for an affluent white person who grew up that way in manhatten.

“Perhaps its time to give another idea a shot. ”

again, its an idea (polygyny) that simply doesnt hold any benefit for:

1) most black folks;
2) particularly educated and affluent black folks;
3) particularly educated, affluent black women.
4) the united states in general, thus the illegality of polygamy…that aint EVER gonna be legal in ANY state.

why #3? because a black woman that would conced to ‘sharing’ a man is an admission she can’t get a man for herself. its an admission that she can’t compete with the desireable women (fit, pretty, sane, nice, childless), and that she has to SETTLE for a shared relationship; that she has to be happy getting a piece of man.

now, for the dregs of black society (ghetto, ignorant, no work/career skills, etc.) this may be a great arrangement, but any man WORTH anything is likely not to WANT her…what benefit does a poor/ignorant ghetto woman have (socially) for a man that is educated and affluent? very little.

“Besides if an individual doesn’t want to be in that type of marriage they don’t have too. Personal choice should be respected and the government is being overly intrusive dictating to folks what they can do in their personal lives. ”

maybe…but most folks don’t see ‘monogamous relationships’ as ‘intrusive. they see it as a natural relationship in a society that doesnt need to quickly increase its numbers.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 8

Ravenesque
Female, 33, Seattle, WA

Smack, you argue like an expensive lawyer. I’m impressed.

LOL…mid priced to appeal to the masses.

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Eolufemi
Male, 27, Lansing, MI

Posted Mar 9

smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

“I think they are ignoring the point you’ve made, which is the general benefit of a polygamous society. If women outnumber the men, monogamy is impossible and man-sharing is an inevitable by-product. Yet those women don’t get the benefit of protection under law or any real recognized obligation of the men to them.”

1) when i was in sales, we learned you can’t ‘sell’ something to anybody…you have to address a REAL NEED (‘real need’ according to THEM, not you). as such, no matter how many virtues and benefits polygamous societies allegedly have, if the people you’re talking to don’t see these benefits, that means there’s no benefit in it for them.

2) women outnumber men, but that’s the way its always been. they don’t outnumber men in THIS SOCIETY in numbers that necessitate polygamy. so, yes , there will be women that don’t have men, but that means they simply can’t compete with women who DO have men. conversely, though women outnumber men, there are men that can’t attract/keep
show morewomen, and that’s because these men can’t compete with other men. “I think the black community in particular would definitely benefit from getting rid of the stigmas attached to polygamy. There are 87 black men for every 100 black women. Only 25% or so of black women are childless by the time they are 30. While nearly 50% of black men are childless by that time. Clearly a lot of man sharing is already going on in our society. And the vast majority of these women have no claim on the men that father their children.” i’d like to know where you got that 25% number from (cuz i can use that and its source later on to argue why a man without kids, who’s educated, fit, etc., really has no need for a woman with kids). beyond that, yes, man sharing is going on…but its UNWANTED man sharing. and its bad decision making on the part of women to HAVE A CHILD WITH A MAN THEY’RE NOT MARRIED TO. if the women KNEW (or admitted to themselves) that they were sharing a man with another woman/other women, they’d not do it. with the spread of STDs in the black community, the men that are being shared are not the prime men…the women simply need to keep their legs closed, or used protection, when dealing with these men. and the women that accept this idiocy of getting knocked up, repeatedly, by men they’re not married to are typically not prime women. an educated, career woman doesnt have as much time to crank out kid after kid (educated and affluent women tend to have fewer kids anyway) without benefit of marriage. and educated/affluent women who are pretty, initially childless, fit and nice will NEVER BE LIKELY, IN THIS SOCIETY, TO SHARE A MAN. “Monogamy has been a failure as a marital arrangement in our communities. ” in the poorer/less educated elements of our society. poor and ignorant have more children worldwide…how can our poor be any different. however, i’m neither poor nor ignorant, never grew up in the ghetto/slums, and likely will never life there. the poor community is no more MY ‘community’ than appalachia is for an affluent white person who grew up that way in manhatten. “Perhaps its time to give another idea a shot. ” again, its an idea (polygyny) that simply doesnt hold any benefit for: 1) most black folks; 2) particularly educated and affluent black folks; 3) particularly educated, affluent black women. 4) the united states in general, thus the illegality of polygamy…that aint EVER gonna be legal in ANY state. why #3? because a black woman that would conced to ‘sharing’ a man is an admission she can’t get a man for herself. its an admission that she can’t compete with the desireable women (fit, pretty, sane, nice, childless), and that she has to SETTLE for a shared relationship; that she has to be happy getting a piece of man. now, for the dregs of black society (ghetto, ignorant, no work/career skills, etc.) this may be a great arrangement, but any man WORTH anything is likely not to WANT her…what benefit does a poor/ignorant ghetto woman have (socially) for a man that is educated and affluent? very little. “Besides if an individual doesn’t want to be in that type of marriage they don’t have too. Personal choice should be respected and the government is being overly intrusive dictating to folks what they can do in their personal lives. ” maybe…but most folks don’t see ‘monogamous relationships’ as ‘intrusive. they see it as a natural relationship in a society that doesnt need to quickly increase its numbers.
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You wrote a lot of words but most of it boiled down to making tone arguments. So I’ll try not to get caught up responding to your tone but its kind of difficult when someone relies so heavily on inflammatory rhetoric.

You basically made three (and a half) points. You don’t see a benefit in polygamy personally and you look down on anyone that could benefit or sees the benefit in this practice. This is basically an argument for why you shouldn’t be in a polygamous relationship rather than someone else.No need to respond to that, its just a personal opinion presented as true for most people made through a tone argument.

Your second point really wasnt one. Yes there are more women than men, so of course women who are less attractive to most men are going to be missing out. However, marriage as I see it should be an option for whoever wants it not just the few that society confers on privileges that would make them attractive to the programed majority of men. The simple way to give folks the opportunity to marry if they so chose is to remove the cap on male marital partners created by monogamy.

Your third point or rather question, male fertility statistics are found on the Census and Health department websites. I invite you to bring whatever counter facts you like. But, you’ll find that my argument is not that single women with children are attractive. My argument is that monogamy creates a context where a lot of mothers will be single due to man-sharing without the option of a multi-spouse household. As the original question asked for the benefits of this marital arrangement, this would be one.

On to your fourth point, we get it you don’t like single parents or anybody else you consider low class. Who cares? LOLs. Your value judgments are your value judgments. Why does the rest of society have to live by your values? People can and should decide for themselves whether they prefer monogamy, polygamy or just simply being single. Freedom of choice is also a value, since you want to live by your values, why begrudge other people the same option. Let people individually decide whether or not its a choice they want to make. If you are correct and most people don’t value this as an option than what do you have to lose if a few people desire this right to choose.

The rest of your post was just a diatribe against people you consider beneath you. Those are your issues, again who cares? Now of course you can say what you like, but why even include it in a response to me. Honestly, I prefer not to be used as an excuse to denigrate poor people and single mothers.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 9

Eolufemi
Male, 27, Lansing, MI

You wrote a lot of words but most of it boiled down to making tone arguments. So I’ll try not to get caught up responding to your tone but its kind of difficult when someone relies so heavily on inflammatory rhetoric.

You basically made three (and a half) points. You don’t see a benefit in polygamy personally and you look down on anyone that could benefit or sees the benefit in this practice. This is basically an argument for why you shouldn’t be in a polygamous relationship rather than someone else.No need to respond to that, its just a personal opinion presented as true for most people made through a tone argument.

Your second point really wasnt one. Yes there are more women than men, so of course women who are less attractive to most men are going to be missing out. However, marriage as I see it should be an option for whoever wants it not just the few that society confers on privileges that would make them attractive to the programed majority of men. The simple way to give folk
show mores the opportunity to marry if they so chose is to remove the cap on male marital partners created by monogamy. Your third point or rather question, male fertility statistics are found on the Census and Health department websites. I invite you to bring whatever counter facts you like. But, you’ll find that my argument is not that single women with children are attractive. My argument is that monogamy creates a context where a lot of mothers will be single due to man-sharing without the option of a multi-spouse household. As the original question asked for the benefits of this marital arrangement, this would be one. On to your fourth point, we get it you don’t like single parents or anybody else you consider low class. Who cares? LOLs. Your value judgments are your value judgments. Why does the rest of society have to live by your values? People can and should decide for themselves whether they prefer monogamy, polygamy or just simply being single. Freedom of choice is also a value, since you want to live by your values, why begrudge other people the same option. Let people individually decide whether or not its a choice they want to make. If you are correct and most people don’t value this as an option than what do you have to lose if a few people desire this right to choose. The rest of your post was just a diatribe against people you consider beneath you. Those are your issues, again who cares? Now of course you can say what you like, but why even include it in a response to me. Honestly, I prefer not to be used as an excuse to denigrate poor people and single mothers.
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“You wrote a lot of words but most of it boiled down to making tone arguments. So I’ll try not to get caught up responding to your tone but its kind of difficult when someone relies so heavily on inflammatory rhetoric. ”

you can say its ‘tone arguements’ but its not. YOU said things that i simply countered. whether you feel you’re ‘getting caught up’ or not is your thing.

“You basically made three (and a half) points. ”

so you say.

“You don’t see a benefit in polygamy personally and you look down on anyone that could benefit or sees the benefit in this practice. ”

WRONG! i don’t benefit PERSONALLY from polygamy, nor do MOST people, thats why this society has laws against it. i don’t look down on polygamy, i just know that in a modern, western capitalistic society:

1) men aren’t seeking this, because for no other reason they can’t afford it, and;
2) women about anything (socially, economically, academically, etc.) have nothing to gain.

“This is basically an argument for why you shouldn’t be in a polygamous relationship rather than someone else.”

WRONG! my arguement is for why polygamy will never be accepted in a modern, western, capitalistic society such as the united states.

“No need to respond to that, its just a personal opinion presented as true for most people made through a tone argument. ”

1) i’ll respond to your statement because you assumed incorrectly. thus, there WAS a need;
2) not a tone arguement, and you cant prove it is.

“Your second point really wasnt one. ”

so you say, but you didnt even get the ‘first arguement’ correct.

“Yes there are more women than men, so of course women who are less attractive to most men are going to be missing out. ”

well, thats right at least. and that’s tough for the less attractive women. not anybody’s problem but HER’S and those that care for her.

“However, marriage as I see it should be an option for whoever wants it not just the few that society confers on privileges that would make them attractive to the programed majority of men. ”

WRONG. marriage is a ‘priviledge’, and its for those that are physically , mentally, and emotionally ready for it. nobody is ‘owed’ marriage.

“The simple way to give folks the opportunity to marry if they so chose is to remove the cap on male marital partners created by monogamy. ”

again, its a market situation…within reason, the best women physically , academically and emotionally have more choices than the lesser women; same with men.

“Your third point or rather question, male fertility statistics are found on the Census and Health department websites. I invite you to bring whatever counter facts you like. But, you’ll find that my argument is not that single women with children are attractive.”

again, so you say this is my third arguement. but lets continue.

” My argument is that monogamy creates a context where a lot of mothers will be single due to man-sharing without the option of a multi-spouse household.”

life’s tough. if a woman is ‘sharing’ a man beyond her knowledge, thats tough. she doesnt have to get knocked up…she can use protection (have him use a condom) and she can use birth control pills. she can also use the morning after pill now.

if she GETS knocked up because she was too stupid to do any of the above, she can get an abortion, or give the child away.

there are any NUMBER of precautions to NOT be a single mother.

” As the original question asked for the benefits of this marital arrangement, this would be one.”

its a ‘benefit’ for an easily avoidable situation (single motherhood) and i’ll wager even for THEM, knowingly sharing a man is not the answer.

“On to your fourth point, we get it you don’t like single parents or anybody else you consider low class. Who cares? ”

1) its not that i don’t like single parents. i just would never deal with a single mother.
2) i care;
3) most men who are single, successful and desireable to women care.
4) oh, WRONG again, aren’t you?

“LOLs. Your value judgments are your value judgments. ”

exactly…they just happen to be the mode for others in my socio-economic area…the people who are ‘most desireable’ to the opposite sex.

“Why does the rest of society have to live by your values?”

they don’t have to…they just do. or maybe i live my values based on the rest of society. or its a combo of both?

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 9

euolufimi, part 2:

“” People can and should decide for themselves whether they prefer monogamy, polygamy or just simply being single. ”

but they aren’t…thats the issue. no matter how many ‘benefits’ you can extol for polygamy, THE MAJORITY in THIS SOCIETY simply don’t SEE the ‘benefits’ you extol as benefits.

it is YOU that is trying to decide what IS a benefit or others…you can’t do that. thats why i gave you the logic of sales professionals: what YOU as the ‘seller’ may consider a benefit the prospective buyer may not. YOU have to find out whats important to those you’re trying to sell, and hope they’ll tell you.

in this case, society as a whole, and black folks, don’t consider what YOU call benefits of polygamy to be benefits. likely never will.

“Freedom of choice is also a value, since you want to live by your values, why begrudge other people the same option.”

we live in a republic, and the majority rules. don’t like it, that’s regrettable. most people dont see the benefit of polygamy…thats why there are laws on the books. most people also dont see the benefit in taking those laws off the books. thus, they stay on the books.

” Let people individually decide whether or not its a choice they want to make. ”

see my above statement.

“If you are correct and most people don’t value this as an option than what do you have to lose if a few people desire this right to choose.”

because there are values that are shared by the majority of the population. personally, i could care less about folks wanting to have multiple husbands. you’re right, don’t bother me. i also dont give a damn about gay marriage. not my problem.

but i also don’t suffer having the current laws on the books, and i’m not likely to go out and vote on a referendum to get them off the books. most folks feel like i do, at least in most states regarding polygamy.

oh well…laws won’t be changed.

“The rest of your post was just a diatribe against people you consider beneath you.”

1) you saying its a ‘diatribe’ dont’ make it so. your opinion, you’re welcome to it. just because you FAILED to sway me and others doesnt make what i say a ‘diatribe’. try that old trick on someone else.

2) i never said anyone was beneath me…thats another tired trick that doesnt work with me.

” Those are your issues, again who cares?”

1) they arent my issues, because you’re making them up in a failed attempt to push YOUR idea. won’t work.

2) you must care, because you responded to me.

” Now of course you can say what you like”

no feces, fellini?

“, but why even include it in a response to me. ”

because i can.

“Honestly, I prefer not to be used as an excuse to denigrate poor people and single mothers. ”

1) i’m not denigrating poor people and single mothers…i simply don’t desire either as a wife. just like some women prefer not to have short men, or broke men. i have a right to my preferences, and a right to say them.

don’t like it….so?

2) i’m not ‘using’ you to do anything, but if i was, do you REALLY think i care if you ‘prefer’ it or not?

we can go back and forth, you gave your opinion, and i’m GOING to give mine. thats how it has to be.

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Eolufemi
Male, 27, Lansing, MI

Posted Mar 11

Well, well, well, I guess you told me, huh. LOLs!!!(sigh…)Yet again, you miss the mark. In your eagerness to argue, you’ve forgotten what the discussion is about. Its a basic question of the pros and cons of polygamy. Not a question of how to convince congress to change the laws or how to convince people like you to become polygamists. Or whether I am correct and your posts wreak of intolerance for other cultures and belief sets. The validity of that observation is either confirmed or denied by the content of your posts and others reading of them. Not in your denial or admitting as much. In all that you’ve said, your basic con is that you and your kind wouldn’t do it, and if anybody dares suggest otherwise you’ll go into spam mode and “win” by attrition.

Okay…this argument again is not passing the so what test.

The point was made and your copious response was lacking in substance. I guess for you it was one of those, “when in doubt spam with argumentative asides” moments. Focus my friend. In a monogamous society where women outnumber men, women will inevitably be forced to share men. The question at that point is whether people who chose to share partners can benefit from doing so. At the very least they have an agreed upon arrangement that they feel works for their particular context. This is the epitome of having the freedom in the “pursuit of happiness”. Personal choice and self determination in the absence of a clear threat or harm to others is a right worth respecting. Its that simple. Anything else is just an excuse to impose one’s beliefs on others.

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smack_u_silly
Male, Age Private, Vancouver, BC

Posted Mar 11

Eolufemi
Male, 27, Lansing, MI

Well, well, well, I guess you told me, huh. LOLs!!!(sigh…)Yet again, you miss the mark. In your eagerness to argue, you’ve forgotten what the discussion is about. Its a basic question of the pros and cons of polygamy. Not a question of how to convince congress to change the laws or how to convince people like you to become polygamists. Or whether I am correct and your posts wreak of intolerance for other cultures and belief sets. The validity of that observation is either confirmed or denied by the content of your posts and others reading of them. Not in your denial or admitting as much. In all that you’ve said, your basic con is that you and your kind wouldn’t do it, and if anybody dares suggest otherwise you’ll go into spam mode and “win” by attrition.

Okay…this argument again is not passing the so what test.

The point was made and your copious response was lacking in substance. I guess for you it was one of those, “when in doubt spam with argumentative asides” moments. Focus
show more my friend. In a monogamous society where women outnumber men, women will inevitably be forced to share men. The question at that point is whether people who chose to share partners can benefit from doing so. At the very least they have an agreed upon arrangement that they feel works for their particular context. This is the epitome of having the freedom in the “pursuit of happiness”. Personal choice and self determination in the absence of a clear threat or harm to others is a right worth respecting. Its that simple. Anything else is just an excuse to impose one’s beliefs on others.
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“Well, well, well, I guess you told me, huh. LOLs!!!(sigh…)”

hollow statement. yes, laugh. thats all you can do.

“Yet again, you miss the mark. ”

i didn’t, and your saying i did won’t make it so.

“In your eagerness to argue,”

YOUR eagerness to argue.

” you’ve forgotten ”

haven’t forgotten one thing.

“what the discussion is about. ”

no, you simply perverted the conversation to make YOUR point.

“Its a basic question of the pros and cons of polygamy.”

whatever ‘pros’ you list (as i said) are MEANINGLESS to people , because IF they meant something, the laws would have been changed.

just because YOU claim there are benefits doesnt mean OTHERS will see it as that.

” Not a question of how to convince congress to change the laws or how to convince people like you to become polygamists. ”

this is where YOU are absolutely wrong. there are laws preventing polygamy, right? yes or no will suffice.

now, in order to rescind those laws, elected officials have to see if the alleged ‘merits’ of polygamy outweight the alleged ‘costs’ of polygamy.

in order for THEM to do this, they are answerable to their CONSTITUENTS.

in order for their CONSTITUENTS to push for this, they have to GIVE A DAMN.

most folks in a WESTERN CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY like the u.s. DONT GIVE A DAMN.

so they won’t vote for that.

so their elected officials wont vote for that.

which means its a done deal.

“Or whether I am correct and your posts wreak of intolerance for other cultures and belief sets. ”

you’re incorrect. did i NOT JUST SAY recently that ‘personally, i don’t give a damn about polygamy or homosexual marriages’?

of course i did.

however, that ‘not giving a damn’ also means i’m not ABOUT to vote FOR or AGAINST rescinding the laws that BAN either.

i don’t care.

its not an issue.

i’d simply skip that vote.

“The validity of that observation is either confirmed or denied by the content of your posts and others reading of them.”

i already said i dont give a damn. thats the validity.

” Not in your denial or admitting as much.”

so you say.

” In all that you’ve said, your basic con is that you and your kind wouldn’t do it, and if anybody dares suggest otherwise you’ll go into spam mode and “win” by attrition.”

wrong again, bright boy. i said folks dont care, and wont act on it. life sucks when you hold an opinion that is either unpopular or one that people dont care about.

you and your fellow pushers of polygamy have simply not provided REASONS FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON to see polygamy as a ‘good’ thing.

“Okay…this argument again is not passing the so what test. ”

your arguement isnt.

“The point was made and your copious response was lacking in substance. ”

no, it was chock full of substance…YOUR arguement isnt. giving what YOU think are merits for polygamy mean squat to most folks. thats a BASIC in sales.

“I guess for you it was one of those, “when in doubt spam with argumentative asides” moments. ”

you guess and presume too much, little man.

“Focus my friend. ”

i don’t have to. i’m not trying to convince others to check out polygamy. YOU are. YOU should ‘focus’ on coming up with reasons that would sway the majority into thinking LIKE YOU, or at least voting ‘yes’ on any referendums that would make polygamy legal in their state. so far, you haven’t.

“In a monogamous society where women outnumber men, women will inevitably be forced to share men.”

not all women. that’s ridiculous on its face. the higher quality women (pretty, fit, educated, career minded, sane) don’t HAVE to share men. the ugly, fat, less eduated, poorer MAY have to share men. even then, doubtful most would WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY share a man.

” The question at that point is whether people who chose to share partners can benefit from doing so.”

YOU have to PROVE to the majority that there IS any benefit in women sharing men. you haven’t so far.

” At the very least they have an agreed upon arrangement that they feel works for their particular context.”

again, just saying it doesnt convince. you have to GIVE VALUE ADDED to the people you’re trying to convince.

” This is the epitome of having the freedom in the “pursuit of happiness”. ”

we’re in a republic…majority rules.

“Personal choice and self determination in the absence of a clear threat or harm to others is a right worth respecting. Its that simple. Anything else is just an excuse to impose one’s beliefs on others. ”

unfair as it IS, if YOU don’t convince THE MAJORITY that there is benefit in polygamous relationship, then in a REPUBLIC, the majority RULES…and the majority will be able to enforce THE MAJORITY OPINION on to the minority.

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Texas357
Male, 26, Milwaukee, WI

Posted Apr 10

i disagree. no one has really made a good argument to institute gay marriage except for the fact that people ought to be able to express their love to who they choose and live as a married couple. the same can be said for polygamy. It is simply people wanting to live as a legally married couple with the people they love. The laws that keep these people from this pursuit of hapiness is unconstitutional………………………furthermore the bullsh*t they show on tv about theses crazy polygamous villages has nothing to do with the millions of people in the US rite now who are married or living in polygamous relationships. I think it will be a long time before someone takes the initiative to venture into a modern US polygamous home with a camera and tell the truth about polygamy………..remember, the next time you see a man/or a woman walking or riding with more than one woman/or man, it mite be polygamy. pay attention. it happens more than what you think.

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